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Thread: Non collar trainers, what do you do when you get a no-go?

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    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Default Non collar trainers, what do you do when you get a no-go?

    I use an e-collar, dog gets a nick and resent for the mark or blind. I'm wondering what noncollar users do when the dog fails to go. A no-go on a blind in an AKC event gets you DQ'ed, but how do you explain to a dog how costly a no-go is if you don't use a collar?

    Tennis shoers, UKers and Clickerers, what say you?

    Thanks!
    Renee P

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    1st time: Step out of heel, call dog off the line, reapproach and try again.

    If I get a second no go, simplify. How I simplify depends on why I think the dog doesn't want to leave. Probably move up or make the retrieve easier, but I might take a play break to bring the dog's arousal up. Dog might go back in the crate for a bit.

    One mistake, try again. Two mistakes, change something.

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    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
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    I’m not a “Clicker Trainer” but I think a “no go” is most often a sign of confusion & therefore pressure is usually not the appropriate tool.
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dog’ nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
    Aldo Leopold, Round River

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    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Agree with Reagan and Dave. I always take a no-go as confusion and don't exacerbate the issue with pressure. In my case, I simplify by moving up or taking some more time to make sure the dog is locked on before re-trying. In my case, the underlying fix has been to build confidence. Then retry the same scenario in a different location to see if you fixed it.

    1st dog regards,
    Jen

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    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Flint View Post
    I’m not a “Clicker Trainer” but I think a “no go” is most often a sign of confusion & therefore pressure is usually not the appropriate tool.
    I agree, but this is a tough one. I have a sensitive thoughtful dog who will occasionally give me a no-go if he doesn't recognize the 'picture' or for some reason is nervous about where I'm pointing him. The normal "burn" heel forward a step or two and resend doesn't work well with him, as he will likely blast off on some way-out-of-the-picture line, digging himself into an even deeper hole. So it's a dilemma, accept the occasional no-go and teach him different pictures gradually, so that he is more comfortable over time, or have zero tolerance for no-goes and handle from there.

    It's all about reading the dog, understanding the underlying reason for the no-go and dealing with it appropriately.

    John

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    I use an e-collar, dog gets a nick and resent for the mark or blind. I'm wondering what noncollar users do when the dog fails to go. A no-go on a blind in an AKC event gets you DQ'ed, but how do you explain to a dog how costly a no-go is if you don't use a collar?

    Tennis shoers, UKers and Clickerers, what say you?

    Thanks!
    You assume that we got a no go....Clint has had only ONE in his FT career, and it was after he had sent one of his dogs off to train with someone else...We dont get them in training for one simple reason...We dont push the dog to the bird, we let the attraction of the bird PULL the dog to the retrieve...

    Right about now someone out there is calling BS...but thats because most on here have never met or let alone trained with us/Clint...I do know how the old timers got their dogs to go, but then again they all went with the premise of pushing the dog to make them go...We run sight blinds, lots and lots of them, and not little gimme ones with a white bucket..We even set a sight blind up as the last thing we do in the evening, and then run it first thing in the morning as if we were dog # 1 on the line to the waterblind on Sat/Sun morning..

    Your next Q will be , how do you transition to cold blinds, and the answer is after running so many sight blinds our dogs know that when we lean over,place our hand down and whisper "dead bird- way back" that there is a payoff at the end of the line..the other reason is that we NEVER false line our dogs, we dont FTP, run T or TT, and run the same blind over and over again..our mantra is one retrieve-one bird

    to the OP, I might be at Lee Kay next week before the trial,because I am meeting Lanse on his way to MT...if you want to train and see let me know
    All my Exes live in Texas

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    Then the time comes when you know the dog knows what he's supposed to do. It's you, alone with your thots.. an open training field,.. and a dog that doesn't feel like doing what it's successfully done previously.

    And those thots sometimes get the best of me.."Boy I'd love to have one of these right now"

    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    ...I do know how the old timers got their dogs to go, but then again they all went with the premise of pushing the dog to make them go...




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    Like John said "it is all about reading the dog".
    The no-go that suddenly appears without warning is quite different from the 2nd or 3rd in last 2 weeks. The re-heel re-send is all you probably need in first case. The latter IMHO a dangerous trend.
    "Nick" is not the only choice. No goes can be handled the same as in FF. An ear pitch reminder is generally effective that a command to retrieve was given. Stick fetch is next reminder.

    Tim
    You order a Lab; ask a Golden; but negotiate with a Chesapeake!

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    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    I use an e-collar, dog gets a nick and resent for the mark or blind. I'm wondering what noncollar users do when the dog fails to go. A no-go on a blind in an AKC event gets you DQ'ed, but how do you explain to a dog how costly a no-go is if you don't use a collar?

    Tennis shoers, UKers and Clickerers, what say you?

    Thanks!
    My vocabulary with the dog includes "yes" as well as "wrong". When I get a no-go, I say "wrong", take a step forward, heeling the dog, resend, and when the dog starts to go, I give a "yes". I have seen the dog quicken her step as soon as I say "yes" which has me convinced that there is confusion for whatever reason. As the confidence builds, the no goes decrease. This has been working for me.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

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    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Before I had a collar, they told me to ear pinch and move forward. It worked for the only dog I ever tried it on. About 22 years ago.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

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