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Thread: Non collar trainers, what do you do when you get a no-go?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    To me, a novice, the "basic" commands are the black and white, easy to understand commands: sit, heel, come, stop. Go does not seem basic. There is always a mission involved with going. Going to retrieve. The no-go's, in my limited experience, only occur when the dog doesn't understand fully where she is going and what the mission is. If I tell her to go and she doesn't go, she has a very alert head, is looking out and looking at me and body is twittering like she wants to go and to obey, but she's not sure which direction and why. It's not because she is willfully disobeying.

    If I tell her to sit, she definitely knows what sit means, it's black and white.

    Is there a time, when the dog is more advanced where there's an occasion that the dog would no-go when they know there's something out there and which direction to go in?

    Edit: seems like if a retrieving dog knows there's a retrieve (blind) and that they're being sent for it, they would want to GO when sent. It seems like the only time you'd get a no-go is if they don't understand something, like that there's a retrieve object out there. GO-ing does not seem like a basic command - it seems like a general concept. The goal is to teach dog to go out straight for an undetermined amount of time and space until I direct you otherwise. Not very black and white.
    Last edited by Jennifer Henion; 04-29-2013 at 07:28 PM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    FWIW, guess I'd take a listen to the ones who've posted who've made multiple FC/AFCS (and multiple generations of FCs), qualified for Nationals, trained with and been around some of the greats in retriever trainers and dogs. Those are the ones who have walked the walk and have the experience and success that I admire and would love to learn from myself. I learned enough from donating entry fees early on that "back" IS black and white at the line. "Back" means go, doesn't matter if wrong direction, just go. Sit means sit, back means back, and, out of basics, a dog that doesn't go on back, doesn't get rewarded for lack of effort. Yes, there is such a thing as confusion, but, at some point, everybody has to grow up and be held accountable. It is never a wrong response to go on "back", dogs need to understand that very fundamentally and they should, with a sound foundation and proper basics.

    No excuses, regards.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  3. #23
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Part of listening and learning is asking questions about what was said and discussing it - whether you're listening to a FC/AFC NAFC or a Ph.D. or a Pos T.

    Natural born smart alec, regards.

  4. #24
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    Great post

  5. #25
    Junior Member notes's Avatar
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    So, what would you non collar trainers recommend for training material? I have been using Sporting Dog and Rteriever Training the Wildrose Way. Been working good for me just wondering what everyone recommends. Went to a local club and told them what material I was using and was left standing alone.
    Andy Muzik

  6. #26
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Regardless of what method you used to re-enforce the "go" command, you have to fall back on that training to solve the problem. That could be an ear pinch or a sight blind... or anything else you may have used to build momentum off the line.
    Darrin Greene

  7. #27
    Senior Member cakaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    To me, a novice, the "basic" commands are the black and white, easy to understand commands: sit, heel, come, stop. Go does not seem basic. There is always a mission involved with going. Going to retrieve. The no-go's, in my limited experience, only occur when the dog doesn't understand fully where she is going and what the mission is. If I tell her to go and she doesn't go, she has a very alert head, is looking out and looking at me and body is twittering like she wants to go and to obey, but she's not sure which direction and why. It's not because she is willfully disobeying.

    If I tell her to sit, she definitely knows what sit means, it's black and white.

    Is there a time, when the dog is more advanced where there's an occasion that the dog would no-go when they know there's something out there and which direction to go in?

    Edit: seems like if a retrieving dog knows there's a retrieve (blind) and that they're being sent for it, they would want to GO when sent. It seems like the only time you'd get a no-go is if they don't understand something, like that there's a retrieve object out there. GO-ing does not seem like a basic command - it seems like a general concept. The goal is to teach dog to go out straight for an undetermined amount of time and space until I direct you otherwise. Not very black and white.
    .
    Yes, a trained dog will no go. FC/AFCs will no go, break, blow off a whistle, not come in.. They are imperfect dogs They are not machines.

    Teaching a dog to go straight.." for an undetermined amount of time and space until I direct you otherwise.", is..a blind retrieve. Not the same as.. teaching a dog, simply to go. That should be learned in yard/transition.
    However, you have skipped the part of the program, that is the underlying basis for that.
    Charlotte Kaiser: " The Problem Lies In The Talent."

  8. #28
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Go does not seem basic.
    I disagree! When told to go, the dog has to go. No ifs, ands, or buts.

    A basic command for a retriever.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  9. #29
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    You assume that we got a no go....Clint has had only ONE in his FT career, and it was after he had sent one of his dogs off to train with someone else...We dont get them in training for one simple reason...We dont push the dog to the bird, we let the attraction of the bird PULL the dog to the retrieve...

    Right about now someone out there is calling BS...but thats because most on here have never met or let alone trained with us/Clint...I do know how the old timers got their dogs to go, but then again they all went with the premise of pushing the dog to make them go...We run sight blinds, lots and lots of them, and not little gimme ones with a white bucket..We even set a sight blind up as the last thing we do in the evening, and then run it first thing in the morning as if we were dog # 1 on the line to the waterblind on Sat/Sun morning..

    Your next Q will be , how do you transition to cold blinds, and the answer is after running so many sight blinds our dogs know that when we lean over,place our hand down and whisper "dead bird- way back" that there is a payoff at the end of the line..the other reason is that we NEVER false line our dogs, we dont FTP, run T or TT, and run the same blind over and over again..our mantra is one retrieve-one bird

    to the OP, I might be at Lee Kay next week before the trial,because I am meeting Lanse on his way to MT...if you want to train and see let me know
    Bon, please give me a call if you make it out. I just PMed you my phone number and email address. Or if you are at Lee Kay look around for me, apparently I practically live there .
    Renee P

  10. #30
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    The last place my dogs should be providing there through basics is sitting next to me after giving the command to go!
    I don't care where they go as long as it isn't in reverse. No excuses, no confusion, unless the case of atomic explosion or perhaps the gates of Hell open or maybe sudden deafness in that case they need a Vet's excuse. It's kinda like force fetch you are or your not...........
    Last edited by Criquetpas; 04-29-2013 at 09:51 PM.
    Earl Dillow

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