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Thread: Non collar trainers, what do you do when you get a no-go?

  1. #91
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    Too funny!
    Apparently both dogs had a domestic dispute, dog on left won the dispute.

    Good pic for a caption contest!
    Dawgs are like Savings Accounts-
    You only get out of 'em what you put into 'em.

  2. #92
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Darrin and Rookie,

    Please remember that just because some folks don't train with a collar or the "force method" doesn't mean they are +R only or that they don't "make" their dog do the right thing in a particular circumstance.

    There is a giant range of trainers and methods.

    Is it less convenient and less efficient? Maybe. I did get a lot of water in my boots yesterday while teaching angle water entry. Wet socks and wet pants, too. But it's not necessarily less fair or less balanced, depending on the individual doing it and the method they're using.

    Please don't lump all non-collar questions and trainers into one group of +R only trainers. Not that there's anything wrong with them. And I won't lump all collar trainers into one big group. I've seen many radical differences in them, too.

    Thanks,
    Jen

  3. #93
    Senior Member Rick Hall's Avatar
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    I'm a getting-to-be-old non-collar trainer who can only recall one no-go, and that was after I'd fussed a youngster for apparently playing around with a short blind I'd inadvertently tossed into thistles. Don't recall what the "fix" was, but am sure it was about as simple as I am. But what brought this thread to mind was another one about Farmer and Aycock's "Problems and Solutions" DVD, in which no-goes were addressed without force.
    If you think I'm wrong, you might be right.

    (And to see just how confused I really am, join us in my online blind at: Rick's 2012-2013 season log)

  4. #94
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    This thread has run on for 10 pages, with no definitive consensus.
    In situations such as this it is helpful to abandon your preconcieved notions and try "thinking out of the box"

    With that thought in mind a solution may be to strap on the old e-collar on Fluffy
    Just Trying to help you Amish folks out in the worst way possible regards

  5. #95
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    This thread has run on for 10 pages, with no definitive consensus.
    In situations such as this it is helpful to abandon your preconcieved notions and try "thinking out of the box"

    With that thought in mind a solution may be to strap on the old e-collar on Fluffy
    Just Trying to help you Amish folks out in the worst way possible regards
    I don't think Fluffy would understand that. If you have been plodding along and suddenly whip out the e collar, or any kind of correction, Fluffy is not going to understand what the correction is for. If he didn't get the force in basics, later if you get the no-gos, you can't all the sudden apply force. Fluffy ain't gonna get it.

    At least this is my conclusion from the responses. It seems so obvious now!
    Renee P

  6. #96
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim West View Post
    I had a dog that was sent for a short retired bird and overran it into the edge of a treeline. Waited a good long time for her to come out of the trees. Judges and I were waiting for her to appear, looking way out three to four hundred yards. After the longest wait in recorded time (at least to me), I yelled at her to "get in here". She popped out of the treeline where she had been sitting for the whole time. I had absolutely no clue why she did it.

    The next week she won the Am and qualified for the National Amateur. They are just dogs.

    I judged Dewey the first trial he ran after his National Open win. He never picked up the flier. They are just dogs.
    Just curious, do you think the dogs were being defiant? Or just having one of those days (being dogs)? Or do you think if you could whisper to them what was at stake, they would have gotten the birds?
    Renee P

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    Just curious, do you think the dogs were being defiant? Or just having one of those days (being dogs)? Or do you think if you could whisper to them what was at stake, they would have gotten the birds?
    Defiant or lack of effort carries different results than a common refusal to obey a command..
    Even though I have the ability to apply force when a no-go occurs ,It is not necessary to come with it first...Most of the time I try attrition first ...Just step up and repeat command...Force is the last resort to problem solving....When force doesn't work we have to simplify ,just as if we didn't have the the collar to begin with...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  8. #98
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    Defiant or lack of effort carries different results than a common refusal to obey a command..
    Even though I have the ability to apply force when a no-go occurs ,It is not necessary to come with it first...Most of the time I try attrition first ...Just step up and repeat command...Force is the last resort to problem solving....When force doesn't work we have to simplify ,just as if we didn't have the the collar to begin with...Steve S
    Really? You'd dumb things down for an NFC? Certainly they understand Go! at that point.
    Renee P

  9. #99
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    This thread has run on for 10 pages, with no definitive consensus.
    In situations such as this it is helpful to abandon your preconcieved notions and try "thinking out of the box"

    With that thought in mind a solution may be to strap on the old e-collar on Fluffy
    Just Trying to help you Amish folks out in the worst way possible regards
    Its the Non Collar trainer that is the one thinking out of the box, and not caving in to the peer pressure of what is now considered the norm for dog training..My brother and I are always amazed at how people are always tring to convert non collar trainers to change...does it ever occur that they may be happy and content training with that method, because its what they do best

    My friend George is a textbook example of this, he was a very successful TST (tennis shoe trainer) he had a National Finalist in his dog Will, he also produced an AA dog at age 9 months in Goose, he succumbed to the peer pressure when he started training with Mike Lardy and his A list of clients. he put the collar on Will, who had 90 AA points before including three Double Headers, George only got 50 more points after and Will became a very piggish dog, to this day he regrets making that move.

    Its like trying to convert someone to another religion,maybe those that train without a collar should be left alone to practice their form and dont want to be converted
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  10. #100
    Senior Member rboudet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    Its the Non Collar trainer that is the one thinking out of the box, and not caving in to the peer pressure of what is now considered the norm for dog training..My brother and I are always amazed at how people are always tring to convert non collar trainers to change...does it ever occur that they may be happy and content training with that method, because its what they do best

    My friend George is a textbook example of this, he was a very successful TST (tennis shoe trainer) he had a National Finalist in his dog Will, he also produced an AA dog at age 9 months in Goose, he succumbed to the peer pressure when he started training with Mike Lardy and his A list of clients. he put the collar on Will, who had 90 AA points before including three Double Headers, George only got 50 more points after and Will became a very piggish dog, to this day he regrets making that move.

    Its like trying to convert someone to another religion,maybe those that train without a collar should be left alone to practice their form and dont want to be converted
    "only got 50 more points"? ONLY 50? did you just say that? I really don't care how anyone trains their dog but how many FC/AFCs have these successfull non collar trainers made in the last 10 years? And how many Nationals have non-collar dogs been to in the last 10 years? Not knocking how your brother trains at all.

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