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Thread: New Breeder Question: Full or Limited Registration?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    None.

    That doesn't mean anything.

    People are people. The things that bring your clients to your door, are the things that screen out the dirtbags. Our "world" is a very small one.

    The overwhelming majority of the people buying Lab, Golden, or Chessie puppies, don't know the difference between EIC and NFC.
    The ones that do know the difference, care enough that they won't breed a dog that "shouldn't" be bred.
    Bottom line, you have no clue and no experience upon which to base such a statement. I have NEVER regretted selling a puppy on Limited Reg, I have on Full. I do not regret any "lost buyers" because of it. I do not lose anything because of Limited Reg, I don't have enough puppies to meet the demands I get on a regular basis, I've got 6 calls to return right now. Not all go on Limited, it is a tool, period. I don't breed to the top of the FT chain, it would be absurd for those types of breedings to be Limited Registration. But make no mistake, many breeds and breeders have sold on Limited successfully for as long as it's been available, many of us find it works for US, and we see the results when the ones we pass on go to other breeders that we know say and do anything to make that sale, have no follow up and end up giving breeders a bad name. But thanks for bringing up such interesting, um, facts, leverage and lost buyers, my oh my.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  2. #42
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    I have on Full.
    Why? What happened?

  3. #43
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    I do not lose anything because of Limited Reg,
    How do you know?
    Would YOU buy a pup on a limited reg?

  4. #44
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    I'm not trying to get in the middle of an argument but I do think a lot of very good potential buyers won't even look at a limited registration. I'm not a breeder but just looking at anecdotal evidence from friends and the responses on this thread tells me that. Many of the bad backyard type breeding situations seem to not be registered anyway so it really just stops someone from registering the pups, not breeding. Nor does limited registration mean that the pup will be in a good home where the dog is loved, cared for and not abused or neglected.

    I think if you're a breeder that has a few litters per year, it's almost impossible to place every pup in a good home. Some owners will not do right by the dog and the breeders may never find out. I think the best you can do is screen the buyers to the best of your ability and follow up on the dog until you're satisfied.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    How do you know?
    Would YOU buy a pup on a limited reg?
    How about reading some of the previous posts before asking what's already been answered.

    As for how I know, well, duh, I just said, I don't have enough puppies to fulfill demand, (nor am I willing to expand to meet the demand, for that matter), I get the prices I need and the homes I want, I rarely have leftover puppies. Pups I bred earned 60+ HT ribbons in 2012, plus some AA points and one QAA, a couple run BDC stuff successfully. Lots more got to hunt and be great companions. It's all good, as far as I'm concerned, as long as they're cared for and loved. The bad are few and far between, but that comes with experience and developing, as someone I respect puts it, a good BS detector. There are better breeders, there are better bred dogs, there's something for everyone, that's the beauty of our dogs. I do what works for me and mine, what others do or works for them is their business, there's plenty of room for all of us. The OP was asking for opinions, he's getting plenty from people with experience, up to him to weed out the drek. Good practice for those puppy sales.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  6. #46
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    How about reading some of the previous posts before asking what's already been answered.
    I did.

    Don't you think that you, would be the type of person that you want buying your pups?

    There's only so much that you can control. I look at limited reg kind of like gun control laws.

    They are based on "good intentions".
    But, in the end they only control the folks that were already under control.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    I did.

    Don't you think that you, would be the type of person that you want buying your pups?

    There's only so much that you can control. I look at limited reg kind of like gun control laws.

    They are based on "good intentions".
    But, in the end they only control the folks that were already under control.
    Maybe you read, but apparently you didn't understand. If there's a litter I want, I ask about Full Registration. It's that simple. What's the worst that can happen, be told no? Big deal. Move on. There are lots of other things we need to connect on as breeder/buyer, it goes way beyond registration and future breeding rights. Since you don't breed, you have no clue about what people ask when they call about puppies. I think you'd be surprised how many DO know and ask about things like EIC, CNM, hips and eyes. They understand health clearances way better than they do HT or FT titles or pedigrees. Health clearances are usually first. Then looks and temperament and hunting ability and many expect to fill out some long questionnaire and be given Limited Registration. I've had people be surprised that Full was even a possibility. There's a group of people who have had the newspaper/BYB Lab, who want a little more for their next pup and one of the biggest things they care about is health and how that puppy is raised, how the breeder's own dogs are kept. Mostly, they don't want to breed. If someone does, we have a conversation. RTFers are a very small, specific slice of the market, what goes here is not representative of the huge middle section of buyers for Labs. Opinions about registration and breeding are skewed thusly.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  8. #48
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Since you don't breed, you have no clue about what people ask when they call about puppies.
    You shouldn't make that assumption.

  9. #49
    Senior Member weathered's Avatar
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    One thing a breeder can do is to advertise or put on their website that most puppies are sold with Limited registration. And that Full registration may be considered at the breeders discretion. Or something like that. It scares away some that just want to breed and nothing else or that just want your kennel name to breed. They are afraid of all the questions the breeder might ask. Maybe then people would know Full is available, but just to ask and be expected to answer some extra questions that might not be asked of people only wanting a non breeding dog.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billie View Post
    Basically, this exactly.... But also, if a dog out there is being bred from, and Waterspook is on the papers(as it will be), I want to know that they have passed the clearances, I require all the same hoops that I jump through before breeding- for them to do as well. Hopefully,its enough education on them by that point that they will also breed that dog to someone with the same clearances.. Dont want to see a litter in the newspaper down the road, " AKC Lab pups- Titled hunting lines- Waterspook lines....." etc... you get the drift.....
    Yes-- this for me too. What is driving me crazy are people who want a guaranteed all Clear pup (eg, if EIC or PRA is a possible carrier status) as a priority instead of selecting the pup that may have all the traits for trainability/structure, etc that they really should focus on. Really, you'd pick the post legged, sickle hocked, or popping hocked pup that is tested Clear (or w/ the desired color genes)? I guess it's easier to wash out the dogs that blow CCLs as pups? Scratching head here....

    I'll stick to Limited esp w/ folks I don't know well. It's not that tough and what, $25 to convert after all the clearances are done? I also require a title and really don't think that's asking too much.

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