RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

New Breeder Question: Full or Limited Registration?

26K views 128 replies 54 participants last post by  drunkenpoacher 
#1 ·
I'd like to pick other breeder's brains a bit. I have stuggled trying to decide whether to sell puppies with a full registration or a limited registration.

What is your policy and what is your reasoning behind it?

Swack
 
#2 ·
swack,
i like this question, it should get interesting responses. btw i am not a breeder but i have bought most pups with full registration and two with "conditional" limited registration.(meaning there were certain requirements to meet in order to obtain full registration) i did not object to the limited registration on my pups because the requirements to obtain full registration were not unreasonable.

good luck with your decision and your breeding!
jmc
 
#3 ·
I sell with limited registration and set reasonable expectations to have it revoked (health clearances and a basic title).

It eliminates people who think that they can buy a girl, breed her, and make a few bucks. The people who care about the breed and are interested in doing it right are fine with the limited registration.
 
#5 ·
I sell with limited registration and set reasonable expectations to have it revoked (health clearances and a basic title).

It eliminates people who think that they can buy a girl, breed her, and make a few bucks. The people who care about the breed and are interested in doing it right are fine with the limited registration.


Define your basic title ... FC ,QAA Mh, top notch gun dog , excellent family pet, service dog ?
Sorry ,you generalize to many people into that group to have any kind of ground to stand on.


I would be considered a buyer at this time in this thread , and IMO unless you want 3/4 of the cost I'm not willing to buy 3/4 of the dog ,which includes registration. With that said ,I do understand the point of limited registration on a per buyer basis. If you have FC X FC and want a very reasonable price ,but with limited registarion,myself I'm not interested because I still have a "zoo keeper" to answer to as to what I can do with my dog that I paid for.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I agree with Howard.....

I'll pay the breeder what they want and after that I own the dog.

When I was breeding dogs they all had full registration and written guarantees...

The OP asked for reasoning too.. Reason being the buyer bought the pup and they bought the right to do with it as they please. (of course within the law)
 
#7 ·
I have never raised and sold litters. If I ever do I would like to see the puppies go to working homes. Titles would be nice but I'd be just as happy seeing the puppies go to loving homes and being nothing but hunting machines. That being said, I would sell the puppies with full registration. I have never bought a puppy with limited registration and don't intend to.

Lonnie Spann
 
#8 ·
Well, responses you get on this question will likely vary by breed.

Limited Registration is common with Golden Retrievers and has been for quite some time. The same is true for many other non-labrador breeds. It is normal for those of us who own "Exotics" to see limited registrations, it is abnormal to see full registrations offered unless the breeder is well acquainted with you.

I hear you Howard I kind of miss the old days when I could plunk down the asking price on a pup and from that point on, all decisions were mine alone to make without somebody looking over my shoulder so to speak. It's still the "wild wild west" with Labradors. Enjoy the freedom while it lasts.
 
#9 ·
Most of mine sell on limited, with that being lifted once they've turned two and have all the appropriate clearances. The exception would be someone I know and that I can trust will be competing the dog....and they have a history of competition. Those folks get full registration straight away. The vast majority of my pups go to hunting homes and won't be competing or running hunt tests, so their owners don't care about limited. I have done, just on the registration papers, a co-ownership, for a new person that intends to show the dog. It's on paper only. This allows the dog to compete in the ring, yet they can't register pups until I sign off once the dog is two and has the required clearances.
My reasoning? I don't want any of my pups to end up in a puppy mill. I had one close call that way and that was enough.
 
#30 ·
Most of mine sell on limited, with that being lifted once they've turned two and have all the appropriate clearances. The exception would be someone I know and that I can trust will be competing the dog....and they have a history of competition. Those folks get full registration straight away. The vast majority of my pups go to hunting homes and won't be competing or running hunt tests, so their owners don't care about limited....
My reasoning? I don't want any of my pups to end up in a puppy mill.
Basically, this exactly.... But also, if a dog out there is being bred from, and Waterspook is on the papers(as it will be), I want to know that they have passed the clearances, I require all the same hoops that I jump through before breeding- for them to do as well. Hopefully,its enough education on them by that point that they will also breed that dog to someone with the same clearances.. Dont want to see a litter in the newspaper down the road, " AKC Lab pups- Titled hunting lines- Waterspook lines....." etc... you get the drift.....
 
#10 ·
Like Sharon I sell puppies with a limited registration with the option of turning that into full registration after the age of 2 and health clearances are obtained. I also ask that there be some kind of title on the dog but will make exceptions for hunting homes or field trial homes. I just want to know that if the dog is bred that they get health clearances and it is not just sitting in someone's backyard waiting to get old enough to make puppies. I really don't feel like I'm asking that much. All it takes is an email to me. I can look on the computer and see if they their health clearances and any titles. It's not hard for either party. I do all the paperwork.

I guess I care about the puppies I produce enough to make sure, as much as I can, that things are done right.
 
#11 ·
I sell all my pups on limited which--if the buyer is interested--can be changed to full with health clearances and at least a JH or a CD.

I just purchased a pup--first time in many, many years that I have bought a pup (rather than a started dog). The breeder does the same as I do. She offered me full, and I told her I am fine with limited because I am more than willing to get health clearances and title before full reg.

If a potential buyer is unsure, I can refer them to clients who have purchased on limited and changed to full.

Meredith
 
#13 ·
I personally would not buy on limited, but that's me.

I do understand why some only sell limited, but it's not my cup of tea.
 
#16 ·
We are in the same boat...but when we did buy from breeders like Sharon V. (Pekisko) and Dr Tatum (Watermark) we were more than happy to carry on their kennel names, although they did not require it, I wish all breeders were as nice as they were, because they always wanted to know long after how their babies were..now that is classy

We sold Nola's litters with full registration...

But I fully understand those breeders that choose to sell limited, and hold no ill feelings toward them
 
#14 ·
I can understand the reasoning that you are saying in getting the health Clearances. The intentions are good. Having said that, I would not buy a limited registered pup. I pay, it's mine to do what I want with.... I have enough big brother in my life telling me, what, how and when to do something.
 
#15 ·
I personally never have or never will buy a pup with limited registration... You can be selective with your perspective puppy buyers without going the limited registration route...


Richard
 
#17 ·
We sell all of our pups on limited registration. After age 2, if the pup has all health clearences and no physical disqualifications, we will lift the limited registration and grant full registration.
 
#18 ·
I do understand the "I buy it, it's mine" and I won't buy on Limited myself, because, given my track record, if I can't establish a trustworthy relationship with the breeder in that regard, we aren't going anywhere together. Do people go back to their breeders with questions or problems, who's the first one gets blamed if there's a problem with pup? Then yeah, if one expects customer service or breeder accountability, one needs to hold up their end as well. It isn't pay for the pup and walk out the door, never to communicate again, (but oh how easy that would be for the breeder!), it's a two-way street. Limited Registration is a screening tool and a way to try to ensure if someone does breed, they do some health clearances. Also used to place a dog that shouldn't be bred for some reason but isn't appropriate for spay/neuter. Of course breeders aren't going to rule out performance people and anyone else with some kind of verifiable track record, like dogs on OFA or they've got entries on EE or whatever the venue of choice, that's a whole different ballgame. Limited Reg works for the average Joe hunter/companion, the unknown, the unproven, it's a tool to start the discussion and to weed out some liars and con artists. Yes, it can be argued that if I trust someone enough to place a pup, I should trust them to breed. Well, crap happens and a lot of crap can happen in a few years. With Limited Reg, they get reminded to contact their breeder about clearances, maybe get some help, etc. If something happens, divorce, job loss, they don't return dog to breeder, dog gets sold or given to someone who thinks they're going to make a quick buck off some pups, lo and behold, they need to contact the breeder if they want those pups AKC registered. It is not foolproof, not for everyone, but Limited Reg has its place and its uses. It isn't just something breeders do to be control freaks and holier than thou's, or to control the competition in the marketplace. I didn't use it for a long time, didn't believe in it, until you get burned, feel sick to your stomach, angry, and decide to try to prevent it happening again. No puppy contract is going to be iron-clad, Limited Reg is about all I have in the toolbox in that regard.
 
#19 ·
The first dog I owned and trained myself I bought when I was sixteen. I didn't know about health clearances and bought the best dog i could afford. At age 4 he developed hip problems. The money I spent on the cost of the puppy didnt hurt near as bad as the loss of all the blood sweat and time into making a good retriever. Clearances on the parents do not prevent this from happening but it has to help. I sold all my puppies with limited registration. All I require is to have hips,eyes and elbows done prior to breeding. This is to help protect other people from the same problems i have had. Not everyone in the world are as responsible or knowledgable on this as most of are. Limited regestration keeps them more responsible. I do also see the point if you own a dog you should be able to do what you wish with it and it should be no concern to me after I sell it.
 
#23 ·
Not a breeder. As a buyer, I don't buy if there is a limited reg, co-ownership, or (the worst requirement IMO) a litter-back arrangement. FWIW, I don't ask for a health guarantee either, except that the puppy doesn't die of an infectious disease within a few days. I want to see certain health tests on the parents but realize that many of the health tests aren't very useful and aren't very good predictors of whether the pup will have an issue. Genetics is still a roll of the dice.
 
#24 ·
I was given a nice yellow lab bitch, by a young man who got deployed. The dog was from a kennel/breeder I was not familiar with. After several months the pup really begin to shine and has become a a dog I think I could run tests with. The young marine had the pup registered, but a limited registration. When I called to check on the registration, the breeder informed me that they would issue full registration for several hundred dollars more. They stated they issued limited reg. if the owner was not going to breed, and charged more for the pup if the owner was going to breed. I was not aware of this policy policy and was a little put off by it. What are ya'lls thoughts ?
 
#25 ·
I don't understand the needed titles.For what purpose?If folks have the time ,resources and energy to activately train and show/campaign their dog that's great. it's not everyones cup of tea. I sell to many hunters many of who never even register their dog . They are interested in a wellbred Golden that has a longline of health clearances that will make his family happy in the off season and make the hunter even happier during hunting season. I also sell my puppies limited as well to the pet folks.I'm also from the "old school' and don;'t have long involved contracts either. IMHO. Off coarse :) Sue
 
#31 ·
I'm quite confident in mine. And because I give a solid guarantee (and I back it up) and make sure the dogs I breed have clearances...and I guarantee the pups will be able to have the same or will be replaced by me...I want to make sure that anyone wanting to breed from stock they bought from me have done the same things they expected from me when they bought the pup. Anything is possible...even two dogs with OFA Excellent hips have a 3.75 percent chance of producing a pup that won't pass OFA. And if one of those should occur, I will replace it...but I want to make sure that pup does not get bred since the incidence of hip dysplasia increases significantly if bad hips are bred.

Would you buy a pup from parents with no clearances? :) And would you breed dogs without clearances? :)
 
#29 ·
What would happen if something happened to the breeder before there was time to complete the tests and get the titles? For that reason I would not buy a puppy on a limited registration if I even thought that I someday want a pup from him/her.
 
#33 ·
There are some very reasonable arguments on both sides! It seems to be tough to find the balance between "if you buy something, you have freedom to do with it as you please" and "I don't want just anything done with the dog, in regard to breedings, that could hurt the breed or my kennel name." Both seem valid!

In addition though, and I know people can lie and do lie, but this seems like all the more reason to do detailed screenings on buyers. In our culture, it doesn't seem that peoples' word is worth as much as it used to be, but it is still important to ask tough questions of the buyer before sending the pup home. Prevention is always better than correction.
 
#34 ·
I don't think it does anybody any good.

Sure, there are some well-intended Breeders that use it for the "right" reasons. But, there are also at least as many Breeders that just use it for leverage.

And a limited registration doesn't do a damn thing to keep a dirtbag from Breeding a dog that "shouldn't" be bred.
They can register through APRI, or Con KC, and their buyers don't know the difference. Nor do they even care.

Or, they can just go for the big bucks, and start producing Labradoodles, Goldendoodles, Chesadors, or whatever.

It's a people problem.
The system's only as good as the people that respect and value it. You can't enforce honesty or integrity through regulation.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top