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AKC Upland Flushing test

10K views 40 replies 18 participants last post by  Hal 
#1 ·
As July 2013 Labradors and Goldens will be allow to test for title in the Spaniel hunt test program.
 
#5 ·
How about Chessies?
 
#6 ·
I don't have a link but here's the body of the letter sent to our Club:


Date: April 2013

To: Clubs Licensed to Hold Spaniel Hunting Tests

Subject: Labrador and Golden Retrievers Are Eligible to Participate in Spaniel Hunting Tests

The AKC Board has approved Labrador Retrievers and the Golden Retrievers to be eligible to participate in
the Spaniel Hunting Test Program effective July 1, 2013. AKC Performance Events are meant to test the
skills for which a breed was originally developed. The history of both the Labrador and Golden Retrievers
indicates they were developed to be versatile hunting dogs, proficient in both upland and waterfowl
hunting. Their upland heritage is still very much in use today as these breeds are commonly used for
upland bird hunting.

The Hunting Test standards of performance are not being changed due to the inclusion of these breeds.
Titles earned by Labs and Goldens will be designated with a “U” (for Upland) to indicate the title was
earned in the Spaniel Hunting Test program. Hunting style descriptions for these breeds will be posted on
the AKC website – www.akc.org/events/hunting_tests/spaniels/hunting_styles/ - as soon as they are
available. Retriever Clubs can apply to become licensed to hold Spaniel Hunting Tests after July 1, 2014.
(One year following the breed’s eligibility to participate.)

If entries are limited to a specific number, Spaniel clubs may prioritize entries to the Spaniel breeds.
Retriever clubs are also provided the ability to prioritize entries to the Retriever breeds.

Specifically the following will appear in Chapter 1, Section 4 of the Regulations upon the next reprint -
Section 4. Tests Offered, Entry Requirements.
Prioritizing Entries. If entries are limited to a specific number as stated in the premium, a Spaniel Club may, at its
option, prioritize the entries for its Hunting Test to the Spaniel breeds (except the Irish Water Spaniel) plus Airedales. If
at the time of closing the limit has not been reached, the Club must accept entries from other eligible breeds up to the
event limit. If entries are to be prioritized to the Spaniel breeds (except the Irish Water Spaniel) and Airedales, this
must be stated in the premium.
If entries are limited to a specific number as stated in the premium, a Retriever Club may, at its option, prioritize the
entries for its Hunting Test to the Retriever breeds plus the Irish Water Spaniel. If at the time of closing the limit has
not been reached, the Club must accept entries from other eligible breeds up to the event limit. If entries are to be
prioritized to the Retriever breeds and the Irish Water Spaniels, this must be stated in the premium.
All-breed hunting clubs and Airedale clubs may not prioritize their entries (except in the case of a test held in
conjunction with a National Specialty Show).
A Spaniel Club is defined by the club having “Spaniel” in its name (except for the Irish Water Spaniel clubs). A
Retriever Club is defined by the club having “Retriever” in its name plus the Irish Water Spaniel clubs.

Comments can be e-mailed to Huntingtest@akc.org.
 
#7 ·
A unique characteristic of the spaniel hunt test is that every breed is judged against a different standard. A description of the breeds hunting style is submitted by each parent club & Judges are required to be familiar w/ them all & to judge accordingly.

http://classic.akc.org/events/hunting_tests/spaniels/hunting_style.cfm

In essence this means that a Boykin spaniel could earn all 10’s with a performance that would fail a Springer.

I will be interested to see what the Labrador & Golden clubs submit. How would you define the hunting style? Would a “bold flush” be required or would you allow a hesitation or even a flash point? How would you describe the desired pace of each breed?
 
#8 ·
That would be interesting. My avatar dog is a flash pointer, where my younger Golden dives right in on the bird. I would live to run the upland spaniel tests with my retrievers. Hopefully they will have the hunting styles available soon.

Dawn
 
#9 ·
The Golden in my avatar was trained along side Springers since he was a pup. His flush was explosive, in fact he blew his ACL when he was 9 flushing a rooster at a club training day.

His hunting pace was like flowing water; not blistering like a Springer but much more graceful, almost setter like. When he made scent, the hackles on his shoulder would rise up & he’d drive in like a missile.

How I wish I’d been able to run him in this game.
 
#19 ·
Spaniel tests have a bird planter out in front of the working dog a few hundred yards planting as the test progresses. He monitors by radio as the marshall narrates the action. If he hears that the dogs are trapping birds (catching them on the ground), he adjusts the way he's planting. If the dog is hunting a long way down the course w/ out finding a bird, he will put them down harder. You usually have to adjust as conditions change so you need to know several different ways to plant a pheasant.

The idea of using a launcher or cage for evaluating a hunting dog ludicrous .
 
#21 ·
...The idea of using a launcher or cage for evaluating a hunting dog ludicrous .
I agree.
A natural flush, is of utmost importance.

I just hate it when my dog traps three in a row, and then when one finally gets airborne, he breaks like a glass rod.
 
#22 ·
This should be interesting. I hope it ends up a beneficial program for all breeds. What I don't like is the "priority" entries depending on who is putting on the tests. This seems like a real easy way to make people angry. Are the spaniel clubs going to be able to put on a retriever hunt test but only let spaniels enter? How are they going to pick gunners for these upland flushing tests if a retriever club is putting them on? For a spaniel field trial the gunners have to have taken a gunning seminar and are then chosen by the gun captain. Being asked to gun is considered an "honor" and the gunning is taken very seriously because it can affect the outcome of the trial and shooting birds in front of flushing dogs is inherently more dangerous than whacking a duck out of a slingshot. Our club uses the same gunners for our field trials and hunt tests because we know they are competent and safe. The retriever people do have alot to offer the spaniel people on teaching a dog to run blinds and hopefully over time this segment of an upland flushing test will improve. I can tell you all right now no launchers, metal cages or other bird boxes will be used at any of my club's tests. I am the chairman for the fall hunt test for the English Springer Spaniel Club of Central Kansas. Our field trials and hunt tests are held in Spivey, KS. I plan on doing everything in my power to make our hunt test open to all eligible breeds, so I look forward to seeing some of you at our next event.
 
#30 ·
Jennifer, the amount of time you are in the field is dependent on how long it takes your dog to find and flush 2 birds. If you have a very fast dog, and no traps, you can be in and out very quickly. I once ran a test in Virginia with Gumbo where he was done with 2 flushes and 2 retrieves in less than a minute, but that is certainly not the norm. If you have a dog that is good at trapping birds, you can be in the field a while, as the judges want to see 2 flushes (usually) and at least 1 retrieve. Often, if the gunners are poor and no bird is killed, the judges will throw a dead bird for your dog.
Sometimes, the field is short, less than 100 yards where everyone runs from the same line, and at other tests, the fields may be very long with you and your dog following the working dog and judges so you'll begin immediately when the dog before you finishes his test; a moving line so to speak. There may be 4-5 different lines before they start back at the beginning. It mostly depends on what is available for grounds.
One other thing. I have run under judges that HATE traditional retriever whistles such as a Fox 40 (which I use) or Mega Whistles.........one even dropped us for using it once (she said it disturbed game...like shotguns don't??). Others don't care, since there is no mention of whistles in the rulebook. I suppose they will see many more whistles that aren't Acme 2 10 and 1/2's now. lol
 
#33 ·
I once ran a test in Virginia with Gumbo where he was done with 2 flushes and 2 retrieves in less than a minute, but that is certainly not the norm.
I would have a real problem w/ judges who made a decision after watching any dog run for “less than a minute”.

If you have a dog that is good at trapping birds, you can be in the field a while, as the judges want to see 2 flushes (usually) and at least 1 retrieve. Often, if the gunners are poor and no bird is killed, the judges will throw a dead bird for your dog.
I've seen this done on rare occasions but the quality of the gunners is usually high enough for it to be uncommon. The exception might be tests put on by bench clubs for specialty events. The quality of these tests tend to be quite poor.


Sometimes, the field is short, less than 100 yards
I have never seen anything like this. The shortest course I've seen was at least a quarter mile long & normally twice that.

I would expect to see your dog under judgment long enough to cover at least 60-80 yards or so before finding the first bird. This gives the dog time to show his pace, use of wind, responsiveness, etc. Judges want to give you at least 2 bird contacts & sometimes more if they are uncertain about something before making a decision. But they need to see at least one flush & one retrieve so trapped birds & missed birds will keep you down for about another 70-90 yds minimum.

On average, the bird planter will have gone around 80-100 yds between birds. Of course if your dog passes a bird, you’ll continue until he finds one. It’s not unheard of for a dog to go several hundred yards if he’s not finding birds.
 
#35 ·
I was referring to hunt tests.

Just to be clear, I didn't intend that post to be insulting to David in any way, I meant that I would feel slighted if I only got to run my dog for such a short time or if a club put on a test without having appropriate grounds to run a normal course.

I think spaniel clubs that also host field trials put on much higher quality tests than clubs that are primarily composed of bench dogs. The one Hunt test I attended that was put on as part of a Specialty event was not representative of most.

Clubs that also host Field trials tend to have a bull-pen of gunners that are in training to gun trials so even if they're not quite up to Field Trial standards, they're pretty good. They also have experienced bird planters which greatly reduces the number of traps.

Generally speaking the only practical difference between this aspect of a hunt test & a field trial (other than the quality of the dog work) is that the 1st 2 series of a trial run dogs in braces so each dog is required to honor as the other dog retrieves & they must not poach (produce a bird) across the flag line.
 
#36 ·
Dave, I didn't take your comments as insulting. The hunt where Gumbo was in and out in less than a minute was on a VERY short field. The temperature in Virginia that June day was 101 and the judges didn't want the dogs hunting forever and overheating. Also, the wind had changed and was blowing straight into the line. When we sat down at the line for the Master test, I could tell that Gumbo had already winded the first bird. I told both judges and the apprentice not to expect him to quarter since he had already smelled the bird. He ran straight to that bird when I released him and the gunners killed it quickly (he is a very fast dog). There were a lot of chukars (we ran late) in the field that had started to covey up. After about 2 quartering passes, he flushed the second bird and the gunner killed it quickly. When I left the field, the field rep looked at me and said "wow!".
As I said before, though, this is certainly not typical. However, I don't think I've ever seen one course that was 1/4 mile long but I've never run in Texas.
 
#39 ·
I haven’t seen the Hickox DVDs but I liked his book, Hunt Em Up & HNTFSH is correct, it does take a lot of birds to develop a real upland dog.

I strongly recommend anyone interested in running these tests should try to train w/ a spaniel training club to better understand the nuances of the game. There is more to it than simply running around in a field bumping up birds.

The master test has 3 elements. The upland series, a Hunt Dead and a water series.

The water series is what most people will find ridiculously simple and it is, but the premise for it is not to test a waterfowl dog, it’s more like testing a dogs’ ability to retrieve a pheasant that fell across the water. Still, it’s usually judged so leniently that it makes me cringe.

Spaniel trainers recognize that the more control you put on the dog, the more it inhibits other important attributes so there is a balance they are trying to achieve.

The Hunt Dead is sometimes erroneously called a blind but the difference is that this series is intended to test the scenario that quite often occurs while hunting where you know there is a dead bird “over there somewhere” but you can’t handle precisely to it because you only have a general idea. Typically the judges will say, “we’ve got a bird down over there between that tree & this one.” The handler is not supposed to see the bird planted. Obviously, if you’re running more than 1 dog, you will know on your 2nd, but they aren’t looking for you to handle to the bird, they want to see you put the dog in the general area let him hunt . If he leaves the area, you should be able to put him back there but again, not over handle.

Unlike most spaniel trainers, I do teach my dogs to run true blind retrieves but I teach a “find it” command/whistle that I can use after sending my dog to the indicated area.

Most Master tests will be run either in a down wind (wind at your back) or in a cross wind so it’s necessary to know what the proper pattern for those conditions should be.
 
#40 ·
Unlike most spaniel trainers, I do teach my dogs to run true blind retrieves but I teach a “find it” command/whistle that I can use after sending my dog to the indicated area.
Ditto and true dat. You can do both and makes for a far more versatile dog. I rarely run a true blind hunting - it is what it is. Dogs learn the difference. Handle to AOF and release to hunt or run them to the stick - either way it's all good.
 
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