The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 54

Thread: Obamacare - The Work of Conservatives

  1. #31
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    6,911

    Default

    An interesting perspective on the ACA:
    Obama moved to exempt his WH staffers since they make such a modest compensation that it is too expensive for them to be compelled to participate, even through "exchanges."

    Congress is now trying to exempt themselves from it as well.

    Should this tell us something about what a good idea this is? Now that those who tell us that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread FOR US ... THEY want no part of it for themselves.

    Although I don't believe that single payer is the answer, ACA seems to be the worst of both worlds.

    Interestingly ... cosmetic surgery and Lasik eye surgery are not covered by insurance or ACA ... and in those specialties costs have come down and quality and innovation have increased. Coincidence?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  2. #32
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,275

    Default

    I will be the first to say that the folks on here are good folks with good hearts. However, they need to think about what they are saying and to think about how it sounds. They have aligned themselves with the republicans because they say things that are very dear to them, like no gun control, lower taxes, cut spending, muslims are bad, lets kick the sh#t out of Iran, etc. While the democrats say things that they are very oppose to and they are cival rights, higher taxes, control on guns, abortion, more spending.

    The problem is these things sound good as sound bites, and are easy to argue either way, and elections are moved on these sound bites.

    The problem is the democrats take a more inclusive position than the republicans addressing many peoples issues, where the republicans want to exclude the poor folks, which many times is largly minority. Those minorities are not lesser people just have not had the opportunities that you have had.

    We have all been given a helping hand by government in some form or fashion, and someone's tax dollars allowed it. Now that we don't need a helping hand, does not mean that helping those that do is wrong. If we help each other we are all better for it.

    Those doctors we argued about that save lives got grants and student loans in order to be able to afford the cost of the schooling and living expenses. Don't you think they should be willing now to give back either by accepting less from those that can't afford the going rate and pay taxes so that the government can take care of those that can't take care of themselves. But it is funny how people forget, because most of them are more worried about where and how big their house is and what country club they belong to.

    Having said that I think my money being used to educate a doctor is not a bad use, and my money being used to fund grants that further sciences that mankind benefits from. But the right wants to do away with early start programs and cut education funding. True enough, many of those dollars are spent on people that do not maximize their potential, but who knows there may have been folks that would have cured cancer that fell through the cracks because the tea party said do away with the spending, and lower my taxes

  3. #33
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    2,035

    Default

    i consider myself a generous and charitable person. i enjoy and consider it a duty to give to those i see and that i know are experiencing true need. all Americans seem to have common senses of duties and generosity. for example, how many billions of dollars did U.S. citizens contribute internationally to aid in the tsunami? we are the most generous and prosperous people on earth.

    i enjoy giving........i don't necessarily enjoy my government giving for me. often i don't see as needy who my government sees as needy. my view is if we were all left to choose, i could give temporarily to a fellow church member's family who's bread winner lost a job. when he was employed again, i could find another suitable recipient of my generosity.

    alternatively, menmon could set up auto draft for monthly contributions to planned parenthood or the united nations relief fund or whoever he from his perspective he deems worthy.

    we could eliminate 4/5ths of government and we would all still be "doing the right thing" for everyone we as a nation feel the need to support. we would just take all the costly non effective government middle men out of charity work.

    cary, if my taxes were lower, i would even help a brother out with some bad teeth!(provided methamphtemine is not what he lost them to)
    john mccallie

  4. #34
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,275

    Default

    That would be nice but obviously our individual charity is not enough or there would not be a need. Just like roads in Alabama, I don't ever drive on those roads but I see the need to fund them. Defense spending, albeit there is much waste, I see the need for it. I don't like helping people that don't help themselves but if we can get drug addicts clean and productive the cost to society is less. It is too easy to say get the government out of it. But as you saw we need those government air traffic controler. I'm for reducing waste and making people do more with less, but this has to be done wisely
    Last edited by menmon; 05-01-2013 at 01:44 PM.

  5. #35
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    2,035

    Default

    menmon,
    i gladly pay for road work evertime i fill up my tank to use the road. we all pay earmarked taxes for that purpose!(if these dollars were spent wisely we would not have to wait until we die to drive on streets of gold?)

    i am talking charity, if you and i were doing it personally there would be NO habitual misuse of "the system"! charity is the work of churches and individuals.......roads and defense is the work of governments.
    john mccallie

  6. #36
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,236

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Interestingly ... cosmetic surgery and Lasik eye surgery are not covered by insurance or ACA ... and in those specialties costs have come down and quality and innovation have increased. Coincidence?
    Not a coincidence at all. But inovation and less costly equipment plays a big part of the costs being lowered. Add to that, both require very little in the way of expensive tests. And neither require expensive drugs.
    Never trust a dog to watch your food!

  7. #37
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,744

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    I do not disagree with a single word of your post. However, if you insert the word "government" before expenditure( which you imply) then I totally disagree with you. Obamacare has 16,000 pages of rules and regulations. It has over 2,000 waivers. I won't be surprised if the number of pages exceedes the tax code of over 70,000 within 10 years. 130,000 pages of procedure codes a doctor must use in order to bill for treatment. By the way the codes are 8 didgets. As I have said many times, the gov. has not, is not and never will be in the business of charity. It is in the business of rules, regulation, taxes, DEPENDENCE and CONTROL.

    A simple question. Do many of your countrymen now cross the border to come here for treatment just to see our country or do they come here because your country denies them the freedom to hire a doctor for the treatment they desire, and does your country deny doctors the freedom to ply their legal trade to those who wish to pay them for their services?

    I once treated a patient from the former West Germany and another from Japan. The West german patient was here only for the summer. I asked her why she did not have the work done in her country and her response was that she could not get it done in her country because the national healthcare system did not provide it and she could not pay for it there. Neither patients' prior treatment would meet the dental standard or ordinary care in this country.

    You might look at the cost of healthcare in this country as a % of GDP and you would see that it remained stable until gov. creation of medicare and medicaid in 1965 when the cost imediately began to increase at a sharp rate.

    Prior to 1965, we had a system where those who could pay did so and those who could not pay through no fault of their own, were treated through charity. It was not a perfect system but it worked in my opinion. If you were to go to a doctor and say that you knew that the treatment you needed was not covered by your gov. healthare system, would he please treat you free? I wonder what your opinion is as to what response you would receive.

    When I first went into practice in the 70's I did have patients come to me in need of care that said that they couldnot afford to pay me for some reason or another. Some wold promise to pay when they could. My response was to ask them if they were on medicaid. If the answer was no then my attitude was that if the government had decided that they were not needy then why should I think otherwise. Later I realized that it was not the government's responsibility to make such a decision for me. It was MY responsibility to determine who was needy and MY responsibility to deal with their care. I have no doubt that I made mistakes but this only made me more aware of my responsiblity.

    I don't know it to be true but I once read that the US was the only country that had a net positive expense of foreign aid. All other countries received more aid that they gave. Please don't think that we don't care about the health of our citizens. There are just many of us that believe the gov. is a poor vehicle to provide it. Take a look at the history of this country and I don't think you could believe otherwise.
    It is the system we need to return to! Healthcare started to get out of control when the HMO/PPO system began.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Tom. P.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    N/W Indiana
    Posts
    298

    Default

    Wow!!!!
    A first for me!
    The ignore feature!

  9. #39
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, La.
    Posts
    10,744

    Default

    When I hear the left accusing the working class for being greedy, I always think of this Milton Friedman video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

    What this country needs is more, 'greedy' tax payers! The ultimate economic stimulus would be, no more Federal taxes.

    The American Tax Payer is the most abused citizen in our society. The BIG government footprint that we are all experiencing now won't last. Obamacare will be nothing but a bad memory in a few years because, it won't work.
    Last edited by Franco; 05-01-2013 at 04:12 PM.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  10. #40
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    LV/CenTex/Idaho
    Posts
    12,580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    It is the system we need to return to! Healthcare started to get out of control when the HMO/PPO system began.

    One of my brothers was a CFO/controller for a hospital in SoCal, I have often heard him speak the same exact thing...he said it did more to create needless paperwork that leads to nowhere, and has done little in the grand scheme of things
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •