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Thread: New to the Forum--Questionable Training Method

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    Default New to the Forum--Questionable Training Method

    New to the forum

    I have a well bred pup from a kennel in Nebraska that is 14 weeks old. I have started her on retrieving as well as obedience. I also have a friend that is a full time trainer of upland dogs and has produced some National Champion upland dogs. He has trained retrievers as well. He wants to start my pup now, which is fine with me, but I am cautious of his methodology and would like some opinions. He spends the first "block" teaching nothing but obedience. There is no retrieving in this block at all. In the second "block", he puts the pup on the table and starts a "conditioned retrieve" and then on to the ground, live birds, water, and etc. From there, it's on to the advanced drills.

    I am a believer in his upland training methods and dogs but it seems to me that he is taking the fun out of retrieving in the beginning.

    Please give me some insight or opinions on whether this format of training is a good idea.

    Thanks
    Eric Hill

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    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
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    What are your goals with the dog?

    What do you mean by "National Champion upland dogs?

    Generally speaking, bird dog trainers don't put much "obedience" work into dogs because it tends to inhibit their bird finding.

    Spaniel trainers do a little more but typically not until the dog has been running hard and finding birds for awhile.
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dog’ nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
    Aldo Leopold, Round River

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    Senior Member HNTFSH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eh79 View Post
    I am a believer in his upland training methods and dogs but it seems to me that he is taking the fun out of retrieving in the beginning.
    I missed the part where he took the fun out of retrieving but read enough dog boards you'll realize a lot of people do, thinking they need to train a pup like a mini-retriever and actually do squash all the fun for 'em. But it seems fun for the trainer I guess.

    Hopefully you aren't combining retrieving with your obedience?
    We shoot dogs with a Canon

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    My plan for the dog is to be a waterfowl dog. Multiple retrieves...deliver to hand....normal stuff. Eventually have her running blinds, etc.

    As far as the dogs he has trained I mean such as National Derby Pointing Champion. Forgive me, but I don't want to give a lot of information about him or his dogs because I don't want any bad opinions about him formed from my post.

    I have questions because his "program" removes all retrieving until she is competent in obedience.

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    HNTFISH...I'm not combining. Right now everything is fun. She retrieves well. Every now and then she will take off with it. I just walk away and she brings it to me. My point is that he has no concerns about her retrieving at all, but I don't want to kill her drive.

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    Senior Member HNTFSH's Avatar
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    Sounds like he's focused on what needs TRAINED and relying on what momma gave her to pick up the rest. If it's a well bred dog - it won't be an issue. Too many combine the two and wipe the 'true' desire right out of the pup. Too many retrieves with rules sucks for a pup.

    Think the National Champion question was...what is the designation 'National Champion?
    We shoot dogs with a Canon

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    Senior Member JustinS's Avatar
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    He may not do any formal retrieves like line walk ups or steady to shot and then retrieve, but I would think that he does fun bumpers at least before and after training sessions to get the dog pumped up.
    Last edited by JustinS; 04-30-2013 at 09:11 PM.
    Justin E Schneider

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    Thanks for the input. Like I said, I believe he is a great upland trainer. I just wanted some feedback about his retriever methodology.

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    My friend and part time mentor George Wilson went from training multiple FC AFC's labs and being a National Finalist, to winning the National Shooting Dog championship a total of 4 times, the last being a couple of years ago with a GSP named Council Mountain's Buzzsaw...his dogs also have hunted pheasants for us in SoDak...good dog trainers are good dog trainers once they learn the quirks of a certain breed

    If I am not mistaken, Judy Aycock was a trainer of show poodles before she got into labs
    All my Exes live in Texas

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    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

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    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    If I am not mistaken, Judy Aycock was a trainer of show poodles before she got into labs

    I can't wait to tell her that one, and you are mistaken unless she led a secret life no one knew about.

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