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Thread: "No Bird" or not?

  1. #1
    Member tbro's Avatar
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    Default "No Bird" or not?

    I am a fairly new judge and I have a question about a specific "NO BIRD" situation I encountered last year. It was my first go-round judging. We were running the water series Senior level. We were setup with 2 dead bird stations and the question occurred with the GO bird. That station was equipped with a "Bubba" kick-winger.(launches the bird extremely high and far)about 80 yards total with a short swim. We needed to re-bird and exchange some of the helpers before we were to continue. The memory bird station went off without a hitch. The GO bird however, only made it about 15 feet high and about 20 feet out. The cover was the same in both fall areas. I paused for a second mulling over if "No Bird" should be called. The dog appeared to mark the fall so I called their number. The dog crushed both marks (Thank You Pup!) and the blind.


    In my opinion the malfunction actually made the series less difficult because of the proximity of the fall to the blind and gunner. I didn't want to send the team back to a holding blind after making it to the line, seeing the birds, and being steady. I've been there and the extra time in the holding blind waiting to run again has been absolutely nerve wrecking for me and my dog. My thought process, which may be flawed, is to save the "No Bird" for the falls that put the dog in a considerably tougher scenario. Just looking for some opinions and some advice.
    TBRO

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Karen Klotthor's Avatar
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    I think you made a good call. IF duck hunting they do not all fall in the same spot. Hard to get flyers in same spot also. Now if the dog did not see that mark because it was too low and short that would be different.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    The dog saw the mark. The mark fell in the same type of cover that the intended throw would have. You made the correct call.

    Lonnie Spann
    DISCLAIMER: The above post is the opinionated and biased view of your's truly, Lonnie Spann, and is in no way intended to reflect the opinions or views of the unfortunate individuals named below who just happen to be doomed with guilt by association.

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    I try to make my "no bird" decisions on where the mark fell, rather than if I think the dog marked it.
    Tom Dorroh

  5. #5
    Member tbro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas D View Post
    I try to make my "no bird" decisions on where the mark fell, rather than if I think the dog marked it.
    So would have you called No-Bird..or not so much
    TBRO

    Choose your battles carefully, life is too short to spend fighting.

  6. #6
    Senior Member cpmm665's Avatar
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    "In my opinion the malfunction actually made the series less difficult because of the proximity of the fall to the blind and gunner"

    If you consider giving the same test to all the dogs and how marks influence blinds, then I would have called a No Bird because the area of the fall of this mark was considerably different even though the cover was the same. It seems you answered your own question in this quote from your original post.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbro View Post
    I am a fairly new judge and I have a question about a specific "NO BIRD" situation I encountered last year. It was my first go-round judging. We were running the water series Senior level. We were setup with 2 dead bird stations and the question occurred with the GO bird. That station was equipped with a "Bubba" kick-winger.(launches the bird extremely high and far)about 80 yards total with a short swim. We needed to re-bird and exchange some of the helpers before we were to continue. The memory bird station went off without a hitch. The GO bird however, only made it about 15 feet high and about 20 feet out. The cover was the same in both fall areas. I paused for a second mulling over if "No Bird" should be called. The dog appeared to mark the fall so I called their number. The dog crushed both marks (Thank You Pup!) and the blind.


    In my opinion the malfunction actually made the series less difficult because of the proximity of the fall to the blind and gunner. I didn't want to send the team back to a holding blind after making it to the line, seeing the birds, and being steady. I've been there and the extra time in the holding blind waiting to run again has been absolutely nerve wrecking for me and my dog. My thought process, which may be flawed, is to save the "No Bird" for the falls that put the dog in a considerably tougher scenario. Just looking for some opinions and some advice.
    Different test with the malfuction. A no bird would have been my call.

    And the arguement of " flyers don't land in the same spot" doesn't work, because all dogs running would see a flyer. In this case, they saw 2 control birds, and one was not the same as the others.

    JMO
    Never trust a dog to watch your food!

  8. #8
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    You need to be there and live it in person to know what to do. If you made a call, were efficient with time, nobody was unfairly treated, and you have no regrets, then don't look back.

    File it away and use it appropriately for the future.

    Chris
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

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    You were not alone, your co-judge let the test continue also, did you discuss it afterwards? Next time you judge try to work out ahead of time what the area of the fall is to be and where you would call a "no bird". It is impossible to agree with or criticize your call without a photo or sketch of the test but your desire to subject yourself to peer review is commendable.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Since hunt test judge dogs against a standard, as long as you and you co-judge felt the test met the standard, unlike field trials it really doesn't need to be the same for each dog. I usually have the no-bird discussion with my judge on set-up day.

    We usually agree that either judge can make the no-bird call, and we discuss what the boundaries are, what a no-bird would be. You don't want to be caught flat footed. It has been my experience that calling no-bird can screw a dog up as much as not calling no-bird, so unless it is really an unfair bird, I try to hold off. I also try to set the flyer up so that there is a nice large area that works well no matter where the bird falls.

    I think you made a good call.

    John
    Last edited by John Robinson; 05-02-2013 at 07:34 PM.

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