The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: "No Bird" or not?

  1. #11
    Senior Member cpmm665's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifton Park, NY
    Posts
    414

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Since hunt test judge dogs against a standard, as long as you and you co-judge felt the test met the standard, unlike field trials it really doesn't need to be the same for each dog. I usually have the no-bird discussion with my judge on set-up day.

    We usually agree that either judge can make the no-bird call, and we discuss what the boundaries are, what a no-bird would be. You don't want to be caught flat footed. It has been my experience that calling no-bird can screw a dog up as much as not calling no-bird, so unless it is really an unfair bird, I try to hold off. I also try to set the flyer up so that there is a nice large area that works well no matter where the bird falls.

    I think you made a good call.

    John
    Senior HT, 2 controlled birds, 1 blind.
    Shift change in workers, someone strung the winger top/top instead of bottom/bottom. It changes my test because the AOF changes significantly. A flyer isn't in this picture.
    If we are testing to a STANDARD, than my test should be as consistent as possible (wet hens and drakes considered).
    We set up this test to challenge dogs, not get weepy willy because of "been there" emotions.
    I work a few HT and FT's, I'm clear on stating I can't throw a consistent bird because of a shoulder issue, who wants me to throw a Key Bird for them? A winger is a different story.
    Cindy Von Sutphen

    Dai Suki Desu MH
    Reed Lanes Ladies Love a Rockstar CGC
    LPK's If I Can Call You Betty (da behbeh gurl)

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Cape Girardeau Mo.
    Posts
    1,365

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Since hunt test judge dogs against a standard, as long as you and you co-judge felt the test met the standard, unlike field trials it really doesn't need to be the same for each dog. I usually have the no-bird discussion with my judge on set-up day.

    We usually agree that either judge can make the no-bird call, and we discuss what the boundaries are, what a no-bird would be. You don't want to be caught flat footed. It has been my experience that calling no-bird can screw a dog up as much as not calling no-bird, so unless it is really an unfair bird, I try to hold off. I also try to set the flyer up so that there is a nice large area that works well no matter where the bird falls.

    I think you made a good call.

    John
    I agree with John....I always make note of long or short birds if on the fringe of fall area ....If a dog gets hung up in fall area of other birds I take that into consideration...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  3. #13
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bigfork, Montana
    Posts
    3,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cpmm665 View Post
    Senior HT, 2 controlled birds, 1 blind.
    Shift change in workers, someone strung the winger top/top instead of bottom/bottom. It changes my test because the AOF changes significantly. A flyer isn't in this picture.
    If we are testing to a STANDARD, than my test should be as consistent as possible (wet hens and drakes considered).
    We set up this test to challenge dogs, not get weepy willy because of "been there" emotions.
    I work a few HT and FT's, I'm clear on stating I can't throw a consistent bird because of a shoulder issue, who wants me to throw a Key Bird for them? A winger is a different story.
    I'm not sure what you are saying. Sure the test should be consistent, but did the short throw really make the test so easy it no longer was of senior level difficulty? It seems to me that it met the standard. If I'm running a dog in a hunt test and by some fluke another dog gets a slightly easier test, I could care less. If the judges thought it made for a much harder test they should have called a no-bird. Now I can't remember the OP's situation, was that the case, I thought it worked out well for the dog.

    John

  4. #14
    Member tbro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blind ambition View Post
    You were not alone, your co-judge let the test continue also, did you discuss it afterwards? Next time you judge try to work out ahead of time what the area of the fall is to be and where you would call a "no bird". It is impossible to agree with or criticize your call without a photo or sketch of the test but your desire to subject yourself to peer review is commendable.
    I did ask after the fact. He thought it should have been a "No Bird" mainly because of the short arc and visibility of the mark.
    TBRO

    Choose your battles carefully, life is too short to spend fighting.

  5. #15
    Senior Member cpmm665's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifton Park, NY
    Posts
    414

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    I'm not sure what you are saying. Sure the test should be consistent, but did the short throw really make the test so easy it no longer was of senior level difficulty? It seems to me that it met the standard. If I'm running a dog in a hunt test and by some fluke another dog gets a slightly easier test, I could care less. If the judges thought it made for a much harder test they should have called a no-bird. Now I can't remember the OP's situation, was that the case, I thought it worked out well for the dog.

    John
    Did the dog execute my Test? 80 yrds. vs. 20 feet? Not the same Test.

    My "feel good heart" may have Titled a dog because of a poor Judgement call.

    Yes, it worked out well for the dog. Unfortunately, it didn't get to prove itself as an A+ performer.
    Cindy Von Sutphen

    Dai Suki Desu MH
    Reed Lanes Ladies Love a Rockstar CGC
    LPK's If I Can Call You Betty (da behbeh gurl)

  6. #16
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    7,688

    Default

    What kind of winger will throw a bird 80 yards?
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  7. #17
    Senior Member cpmm665's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifton Park, NY
    Posts
    414

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    What kind of winger will throw a bird 80 yards?
    IDK, but I want one.
    Cindy Von Sutphen

    Dai Suki Desu MH
    Reed Lanes Ladies Love a Rockstar CGC
    LPK's If I Can Call You Betty (da behbeh gurl)

  8. #18
    Member tbro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    What kind of winger will throw a bird 80 yards?
    The station was approximately 80 yards from the line. The bird was launched at an angle slightly away from the dog. I guess i wasn't very clear in my original post. I apologize. The difference between the regular fall and the one in question was about 20-25 yards. Most of the marks created a retrieve distance of about 110 yards, the shorty was about 85.
    TBRO

    Choose your battles carefully, life is too short to spend fighting.

  9. #19
    Member tbro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    49

    Default

    Thanks everybody! Great food for thought and I will better prepared when it happens in the future
    TBRO

    Choose your battles carefully, life is too short to spend fighting.

  10. #20
    Senior Member cpmm665's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifton Park, NY
    Posts
    414

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tbro View Post
    Thanks everybody! Great food for thought and I will better prepared when it happens in the future
    Thank You for Sitting In the Chair! No body said it would be EASY!

    It's like Hazing, whatever that means!
    Cindy Von Sutphen

    Dai Suki Desu MH
    Reed Lanes Ladies Love a Rockstar CGC
    LPK's If I Can Call You Betty (da behbeh gurl)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •