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Thread: Tulsa FT

  1. #11
    Senior Member Mike W.'s Avatar
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    Derby I heard for the 3rd (and final) series, that they ran from the dam. Memory bird thrown R2L where it ended up tight to the Go bird gunner, which would have made the dogs slice a corner of water at about a 10-15 degree angle. Go bird was then thrown R2L where the dogs ran the entire dike, not getting wet, to get the bird.

    So, you have young dogs running PAST water down a shoreline to a go bird, then you want them to run down the same dike and take a 10 degree slice into water. So out of six birds you have one water bird that is a cheatie MF. Amazing. Sad.

    Sorry for the rant but &%$#!!!

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mike W.'s Avatar
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    Hey, if it's a wide open triple, and the dogs can see the gunners and the birds, then bravo to the judges.

    But I did not see the test. In the open you have to throw down a tough first, then stay tough.

    Better than weak-ass first series where they have to come back with a tricked up land blind and pencil whip to get numbers down.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Troopers Mom's Avatar
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    I agree....... but, when the field consists of 57 dogs (don't know if there were any scratches) and 37 of those don't make it to the second series (only 20 did), that's a 65% drop in the field in the 1st series. 57 dogs is not an exceptionally large field to have to whittle down either. The description given here of the setup sounded good and doable but maybe the terrain with the bowls and washouts was the problem so that setup was not practical here. I don't know. It is just that trials are getting increasingly more difficult and complex and it worries me that this will become a turnoff for the younger and newer players in the game who probably won't have the financial ability or desire to continually get scrubbed in the first series. Another concern that I hesitantly add is that judges judging the Open have been around awhile and know both the game and dogs well. They know a lot of the dogs strengths and weaknesses so therefore it wouldn't be too difficult to manipulate the test in the favor of certain dogs. I don't like to think that would consciously happen, but stranger things have been known to happen from time to time. I'm an idealist and I would like to think that everyone sets up their tests with all dogs in mind. I also realize that some tests occasionally have to be scrubbed because of totally unforseen difficulties with the layout in that it didn't turn out to be as doable as originally thought or there were dangerous aspects involved. I've heard these concerns voiced but people are afraid to speak up for fear their dog will not get a fair shake. I speak what concerns me and always have and to date, my dog has always gone out when he was supposed to have except possibly maybe once.

    Arleen

  4. #14
    Senior Member jollydog's Avatar
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    The test was a wide open triple. Well placed birds and the gunners
    were easy to pick out as well. All I can say is the work would be very good
    Dogs hitting it hard then struggling. Seemed to be that way all afternoon.
    Judges had a nice and fair test and I did not hear any complaints from those who ran it.
    Land blind was very nice with 5 dogs dropped and 15 going to Wb.
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  5. #15
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    All I heard was Tim Springer won the Derby with Dyna!
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  6. #16
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    Arleen:

    I don't know you, so I ask: have you ever judged or handled in an Open stake? It was a fair test with well placed birds and no tricks. There was no complaining in the gallery. Seems inappropriate to make outlandish accusations, insinuations and disparaging remarks about the judging and set up from hundreds of miles away.

  7. #17
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Sometimes dogs do poorly because they are unable to overcome their handler's, such was the case with one of mine who I convinced to go upwind of a very well placed and very fair mark. No one present was unhappy about anything other than their performance as a handler (me) or their dog's performance.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Congratulations to Tim Springer/Dynamic Retrievers, & breeder Troy Tilleraas, for Dyna's Derby Win!
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  9. #19
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troopers Mom View Post
    I agree....... but, when the field consists of 57 dogs (don't know if there were any scratches) and 37 of those don't make it to the second series (only 20 did), that's a 65% drop in the field in the 1st series. 57 dogs is not an exceptionally large field to have to whittle down either. The description given here of the setup sounded good and doable but maybe the terrain with the bowls and washouts was the problem so that setup was not practical here. I don't know. It is just that trials are getting increasingly more difficult and complex and it worries me that this will become a turnoff for the younger and newer players in the game who probably won't have the financial ability or desire to continually get scrubbed in the first series. Another concern that I hesitantly add is that judges judging the Open have been around awhile and know both the game and dogs well. They know a lot of the dogs strengths and weaknesses so therefore it wouldn't be too difficult to manipulate the test in the favor of certain dogs. I don't like to think that would consciously happen, but stranger things have been known to happen from time to time. I'm an idealist and I would like to think that everyone sets up their tests with all dogs in mind. I also realize that some tests occasionally have to be scrubbed because of totally unforseen difficulties with the layout in that it didn't turn out to be as doable as originally thought or there were dangerous aspects involved. I've heard these concerns voiced but people are afraid to speak up for fear their dog will not get a fair shake. I speak what concerns me and always have and to date, my dog has always gone out when he was supposed to have except possibly maybe once.

    Arleen

    My experience is far different than yours. I am not there, so cannot discuss details of test. But I trust Ed, Sylvia, and Robbie Bickley and all believe test was tough - and sound. Moreover, both Bruce and Chip are men of integrity.

    First, I do not believe the kind of test manipulation you describe is practicable. I know I am not capable of doing it.

    Second, my dogs are not - it seems - as predictable as yours. They miss birds I think they should get and get birds I think they should miss.

    Third, as a judge, my primary mission is to find a winner. I want the contestants to enjoy themselves, but that is not what I am tasked to accomplish. As a judge, my primary goal is to find a winner. To that end, I set the test as hard as I can for the given stake. I lack the prescience to know what % of dogs will succeed on a given test.

    Ted


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  10. #20
    Senior Member jollydog's Avatar
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    Open Callbacks to the 4th:
    1 3 13 16 30 32 35 43 56
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