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Thread: "Not Going" is Frustrating

  1. #11
    Senior Member Dogtrainer4God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget Bodine View Post
    Review water T , force to water to a pile (very important to do this review) and then set up some blinds , first, if he does not go heel,nick , heel, moving forward , if he still does not go, force to water
    x2 = good advice right here.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RReeter View Post
    Thank you Steve, Here is the additional information: Yes he went through the typical training program and is forced to back pile and on water. Yes he has done swim by.. No he doesn't wear a collar everyday during training, maybe twice a week. The first time he no-goed was on a mark at the Tulsa Master test water series, it was very cold even snowed a bit. The land blind at the same test he lined the first one and 2 whistled the second.. What was strange his first no-go was on a mark, in which he never failed to go on a mark, be it training, HRC test, AKC test or field trial. And at the last test, it was the first blind when he didn't go.. and smashed the marks the first being a long swim, and the temp was in the mid 70's.
    Why do you work only part time with a collar on the dog ...? Do you feel the weather may have been the trigger in first no-go ...? A review WITH pressure is my advice too..How ever you did your water force...There is a time for a command to be reinforced ... You don't have to wait until you get the refusal... All commands will eventually loose their effectiveness if there is not some reinforcement along the way..If you with hold the treat for enough reps the dog will soon refuse to do the command ....The old sign " will work for food" says a lot....I feel most collar trainers don't have a maintenance program ...They just wait until a correction is needed and then apply the heat...Here is a short story ....A friend calls and ask about his dog breaking during a hunt....8 times in a row....no collar on because of hunting ....He had to shoot 17 or 18 flyers before she broke again and he got a correction in ....He can't afford that kind of training. ...I recommended just stimulation on every sit command he gave ...Walking and at the line when doing marks ...After a couple of days training there was no problem at the next hunt....reinforcement of a command is a must ....Steve S


    " In addition to hunting I was going to put him in the backyard this summer and just let him play." PS:I would run water blinds as often as I could...Any kind and any length,some short and simple..always cold....never repeat...run from the other end if possible..You get two for one that away...Steve S
    Last edited by steve schreiner; 05-08-2013 at 05:59 PM. Reason: aditional info
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  3. #13
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Was he ever forced?
    Bill Davis

  4. #14
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    Very interesting story Steve. Do you think that would also work with a bitch that has decided to be sticky delivering the last bird of multiple retrieves in trials only? Could give the hold command with a nick for birds and bumpers? This is a fully trained 8 /2 year old that is going a bit senile on me!
    If you play their game train the way they train

  5. #15
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    that is hard to say ...A trial wise dog is a very difficult critter to deal with ....If you didn't run trials for some time and the dog developed the habit of releasing with a reinforcement expectation there may be some carry over for a short duration of time ...May never completely ( reprogram ) the dog...It all depends on how strong the habit has become engrained...I would try making the dog hold the bird for long period of time in training to see if it would finally want to give it up on its own...Then force a hold or fetch...Let the dog learn on its own that holding that bird can get boring....and tiresome...Here again the situation is different than at a trial....I would be interested in the out come of your efforts...Steve S


    " Could give the hold command with a nick for birds and bumpers?" I am confused here...I would be giving a drop or leave it command and stimulation to get the release...Hard stimulation, make an impression...Dog may refuse to pick it back up when commanded ...now you will see how much fetch you have in the dog...If pressure is necessary do it ...balance ....too much leave it='s not enough fetch ...too much fetch ='s not enough leave it .....Steve S
    Last edited by steve schreiner; 05-06-2013 at 11:07 PM. Reason: more info
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  6. #16
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    Sorry, meant to say 'give' not hold! Will give it a try over the next three weeks before our next trial and see what happens.
    If you play their game train the way they train

  7. #17
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    Best wishes ....Please let me know the out come at the trial...thanks Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  8. #18
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    Bill, yes he has been through ff, force to pile, T, water force and swim-by

  9. #19
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    How does he act in training on water blinds?

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    How does he act in training on water blinds?

    /Paul
    Paul, for the most part he runs water blinds pretty good, sometimes we use the collar and then we won't use the collar.. We have started using a new cue word "keyword". We always used "Dead Bird - Good - Back" we changed it to "Blind - Back" and for now he looks out more on the word "Blind".. We will keep trying. Thanks

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