The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 55

Thread: "The Smell of Fear"... Or, "The Smell of Trials" Adrenaline and its impact on dogs

  1. #21
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    SW of Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,347

    Default

    Watched a couple of dogs in a HT this weekend respond very nicely to "over" commands on the blind, even though they were totally out of sight and the handler was out of their sight.

    Quote Originally Posted by rmilner View Post
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000Next time you give a command to a dog, do it with sun glasses on and standing utterly still, with hands in pockets. See what kind of response you get without that subconscious “tell” that probably usually accompanies the command.

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA SH MXP MJP XFP T2BP VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  2. #22
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    7,688

    Default

    Although I am not discounting the scenting ability of our dogs, I find myself very much agreeing with Robert Milner.

    I believe they primarily communicate by body language, and read us much better than we'll ever read them.

    I hate agreeing with someone who makes his living by dissing my dogs.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  3. #23
    Senior Member Brad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Tyler, TX
    Posts
    1,306

    Default

    I still cant figure out how mine know when were going training or hunting. Maybe I look confuse or something. I have tried to trick them and load stuff up the night before, or let them out the door that morning without loading stuff. Then they will stand there stairing at the truck and in the morning go about my normal routine. When I pick up my keys they take off to the door and stand there with their nose on the door knob

  4. #24
    Senior Member yellow machine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Elk River, MN
    Posts
    703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    There are those who know the taste of adrenaline.
    If I can taste it, it stands that the dogs can probably smell it.

    And I know for a fact they can sense things.
    I would imagine adrenaline rushes are easily sensed by the dogs.
    I was training with a long time dog trainer and we were talking about how there is no real good way to train for a HT. He also said that he believes the dogs can smell the changes in our bodies persperation and and know that it is from being tense. He said to just relax and have fun and let the dog do it's work that we have trained so hard for. What do some of the handlers here do for a routine before hand to stay relaxed and calm before a test. Alot has been talked about dogs at the line but what about handlers being in the correct state of mind at the line? I alway have a good breakfast and one bloody mary. Whats your routine?
    A cold nose feels good on a hot day.....
    Majestic Oaks Liberty Belle JH

  5. #25
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Mount Zion, IL
    Posts
    6,876

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Although I am not discounting the scenting ability of our dogs, I find myself very much agreeing with Robert Milner.

    I believe they primarily communicate by body language, and read us much better than we'll ever read them.

    I hate agreeing with someone who makes his living by dissing my dogs.
    I'm not discounting how our dogs communicate. I'm not discounting how our dogs feed off of our body language and cues.

    Howard, if you turned off your dogs' eyes and ears, and you drove to a Field Trial, do you think they'd know by smell?
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Although I am not discounting the scenting ability of our dogs, I find myself very much agreeing with Robert Milner.

    I believe they primarily communicate by body language, and read us much better than we'll ever read them.

    I hate agreeing with someone who makes his living by dissing my dogs.
    Well I believe Milner and Chris are both correct, as well as you Howard
    Me agreeing with everyone is highly unusual, but I believe you all are saying different; but correct things

    I was involved on the beginning of the program whereby the militarystarted training labs for the detection of IED's.
    That work , historically, was primarily done by Malinois, who were used also as bite dogs FYIon't ever get on the wrong side of one of those dogs or their handlers!!

    I always knew dogs noses were incredible, but I learned a lot more so how incredible they are. Books have been written on it, but it is hard to quantify it in terms humans understand. I can't and wont try to describe it in this post. The most unfathonable thing for me is how they can zero in on and discern exactly what they are trained to ID and not be overwhelmed or suffer system overload from all of the sensory information they are simultaneously dealing with. Suffice it to say the dogs nose is an incredible tool that we are underutilyzing and will probably never fully understand.

    In that regard I agree with Chris that the FT has an unmistakable smell to a dog. I don't think it can be fully duplicated in a club training day, regardless of how hard we try. You can put all kinds of ingredients in a pot and call it gumbo, but it aint really gumbo without okra. Its a stupid analogy, but what Chris calls Adreneline, I would liken to the okra in gumbo.

    I also agree with Mr Milner, and don't think what he says counters what Chris says. Dogs do much communication with us and each other with their eyes. They are also much better at reading us and eye cues than we are at reading them. More so with some than with others obviously

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Vancouver CANADA
    Posts
    593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    There are those who know the taste of adrenaline.
    If I can taste it, it stands that the dogs can probably smell it.

    And I know for a fact they can sense things.
    I would imagine adrenaline rushes are easily sensed by the dogs.
    Absolutely I agree, 100%. I've heard handlers talk about popping a breath mint before taking dog from the truck....however they never take pains to do the same thing in training!
    Had a training partner who's dog would only break in trials and then he would break in 100% of every test entered. Owner trained in groups and in large groups he trained without a collar...just like at the real thing but he couldn't get the dog to break.

    I figured fear was the one thing missing in training and asked him what amount of money would he be unwilling to loose in a bet that his dog wouldn't break in training. Turned out a $1000.00 would have been too much to risk, so I suggested to him that at the next large group training session he bring $1200.00 in cash and give it to the club secretary on the understanding that it will be the club's to do with, no ifs and or buts, if his dog broke at any point during training that day. He never did put that idea to the test and for different reasons he no longer competes but I do believe our dogs can both smell our fear. I also believe, as Mr. Millner wrote they can detect more subtlety in our movements and behaviors than we can imagine.
    power without lumber, raciness without weediness

    A big man never looks down on others.... instead, he is someone to look up to.

  8. #28
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    N. Cackalacky
    Posts
    2,509

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yellow machine View Post
    What do some of the handlers here do for a routine before hand to stay relaxed and calm before a test. Alot has been talked about dogs at the line but what about handlers being in the correct state of mind at the line? I alway have a good breakfast and one bloody mary. Whats your routine?
    I have found that a quick sip of untaxed hot peach brandy prior to running will guarantee your dog will slam the series. Now that I have established that much, I plan soon to test my hypothesis that if a sip is good for a series, chugging the whole jar will guarantee the blue

  9. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Vancouver CANADA
    Posts
    593

    Default

    For an insight into what dogs focus on, take a look at this: http://mashable.com/2013/05/05/google-glass-dog/
    power without lumber, raciness without weediness

    A big man never looks down on others.... instead, he is someone to look up to.

  10. #30
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Stirling Scotland
    Posts
    780

    Default

    Taking away the eyes and ears Chris,
    On shoot day's in the winter I can travel up to 50 miles with a truck load in the back with no sight of outside and it's dark when we get home,I have the radio on in the car ,and normally talking crap with a buddy,and having a few cigarettes as well. We can make up to 20 left and right turns with the indicator clicking,and honk the horn at some idiot driver in front,Now I know where I am going but the dogs in the back are curled up and cosy without a peep!..but When I turn of the highway into our estate they all immediately get up and wag the tail,looking out the window.?.....So I am sure they know/do the same on the out run
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •