RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

"The Smell of Fear"... Or, "The Smell of Trials" Adrenaline and its impact on dogs

30K views 106 replies 64 participants last post by  Steve Shaver 
#1 ·
"The Smell of Fear"... Or, "The Smell of Trials" Adrenaline and its impact on dogs

The topic of heeling, or lack of it at a test or trial has caused me to create a new topic. This is the smell of a trial - and why it has such a bearing on how our dogs behave at a trial.

How many times have you heard, or read that "Dogs can smell fear"? Do you believe it?

How many times have you observed, when you pulled your vehicle up to a test or trial in progress, that your dogs could sense it, immediately? How do you think they know it?

Here's my belief: If we were to take an experienced Field Trial or Hunt Test dog, who knows the excitement of fliers, live guns, Field Trial Poppers, marks, holding blinds, judges yelling "guns up", etc. and turn off their eyes and ears, they would KNOW they were at a Field Trial the moment we pulled the vehicle into the scent cone of the event. I'm totally convinced of it. If these dogs suddenly became deaf and blind, and were transported to a trial, they would KNOW it by scent alone.

A Field Trial atmosphere, to a dog, smells like a total soup of awesome scents that our dogs associate with the ecstasy of a Trial atmosphere. There's spent gunpowder and all that. But more importantly, there's the scent of adrenaline and other associated scents that other dogs AND their human counterparts, emit when they are under stress or excitement.

I've had the luxury and benefit over the past few years of training with, hanging out with and observing K9 Law Enforcement guys. Around here, these guys will use the same dog (frequently a Belgian Malanoit) for: bite work, substance detection, article search and tracking. These are all associated and similar tasks, yet with their own unique nuances that make them separate and require specific training.

One thing that these dogs learn quickly is how to smell "fear" or adrenaline in a "street" situation. It is likened to how our dogs quickly learn to discriminate between shot birds and non-shot birds, or how they quickly learn to associate awesomeness with the smell of a shot flyer station.

At first, I was confused as to how a trained tracking malanoit could walk through a crowded festival and track the scent of a badguy who just ran from a stolen car, through a huge group of people. How can this dog follow the scent of this one bad guy, while there are other people ALL OVER the place?

The reason, of course, is that this badguy is emitting all sorts of unique scents from his body that smell totally different from the calm, happy, innocent people that share the same space as him. Adrenaline, sweat, and other chemicals or hormonal secretions are all causing this bad guy to give off a scent that to a K9's nose, is like an olfactory neon sign!

I have no scientific proof and no studies to point to. But I believe it is logical and totally accurate that our dogs give off the same sorts of chemical scent signatures when they are excited, pumped up, charged go get a bird, etc. Not only that, but that crate of fliers...those stressed mallards that are getting popped at the flyer station...same deal. They are giving off all sorts of incredible scent. And to take it further, the nervous handlers who are stumbling, fumbling and trying to remember to breathe and not screw up....they too are giving off their own scent, much different from that of a calmer person training in a training atmosphere.

It is so hard, no matter how much we yell, play recordings, plant fake judges or put out holding blinds to truly mimic a trial atmosphere. A big reason for this is the scent of a trial.

I believe this is a major factor in the "Bohn Principle" that is being implemented by East Coast Trainer Randy Bohn to rehab maniac field trial dogs BACK into tractable field competitors - for the pro AND for their handler. The whole thing, I believe, is the maintenance of a standard in varied conditions. I read recently, as someone put it, that if a dog "gets away" with a behavior 3 times, we have just inadvertently trained that dog to do that behavior. This makes sense to me.

So if we allow an obedience standard to slip, in an atmosphere where there's a whole soup of scent, among other special situational differences between this setting and our more common standard training settings, we are essentially training that dog that the standard is out the window.

I don't have the answer. I think I have some clue. I think Field Trial settings, to a dog, are a neon sign of scent that can make their brains go haywire if we don't gradually introduce distractions while maintaining a standard. --- Easier said than done perhaps.

Good training, Chris
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I agree with all of the above Chris.
And I feel the "smell soup" is the hardest thing to train for.
This alone is reason to be a retriever club member.
'cause while all by ourself we can run Rover 400 yards with just a bumper and a dvd by Dennis.
It does nothing to help the cold wet spot 6 inches from his brain.

So many will treat the dog like a family member and stop thinking like a dog.
Yes a few may kneel with setting up a mark, but how many get right down into that high drive retriever crouch zone?
Even fewer. And that is just sight, not sound nor smell.

Oh, and when you walk to the line sure your going to crash and burn, you will.
 
#3 ·
Chris,
I agree with all of your points. An experienced OB trainer/handler said as much to me. She carried a tin of Altoid breath mints and always popped one in her mouth before going into the ring. Said it masked the "smell of fear" in her breath. I've done the same for years. Have no idea if it works. But the routine helps calm me down.
I'm always amazed at our dogs' scenting prowress and their ability to differentiate. My now past golden gal tracked a wingshot hen mallard through resting flocks of resident birds, ignoring all until she finally swam down the wounded bird. I just sat in awe and watched for the 1/2 hr as she cruised around the pond searching out the hen who would try to hide among the resting flocks. And at a recent club trial the live gunners completely missed the drake thrown. The bird hit the ground but would not fly. My boy ran right to it, sniffed and proceeded to hunt for something that had been shot. (Our training pond has literally 100's of resident geese and mallards and the kid routinely had to pick up birds while swimming through the resident flocks.) The judges retrieved the bird, saw that it had not been shot and gave us a rerun. We've since worked on retrieving live birds.
 
#5 ·
Our club offers training sessions that pretty much mimic a test atmosphere. We will run 40-50 dogs through each session and it is set up with holding blinds, decoys for HT set ups, judges calling dogs to line, a gallery, etc. The dogs react as if they were at a test, very excited, obedience goes down the tubes. It has been an excellent opportunity for our members to get practice and get some corrections in. Only thing lacking is the handlers stress, which really will only happen when it counts.

The sessions at least give handlers the ability to see what problems they will have and it gives them the ability to get comfortable on line with their dogs.

I have seen many dogs, my own included, get screwed up by my nerves and failure in judgement day of the trial. I work very hard at projecting confidence and quiet authority when I head to line.

DWn
 
#6 ·
To Good Dogs
I have seen this at NAHRA tests where they lay a track with a live duck, then drop a dead duck at the end of the trail and some dogs keep looking for the live duck and won't fetch the dead one until told to. I have trained for this by dragging a trail with one duck and dropping another. It is absolutely amazing how detailed dogs scenting abilities are.

Dawn
 
#7 ·
Thanks Chris for this post. You are right, they really know the difference. I cannot get my girl to creep or break at a training day, but man get to a hunt test and she really knows the difference. She has very strong OB and heels really well anytime other than at a hunt test. She still heels but not near as tight as any other time, and I just never know if she is going to sit and stay on honor. I can go off the grounds and work on a problem 10 min before she runs and all goes out of her head at the line.
 
#9 ·
A dog’s primary mode of communication is with his eyes. You can take a pack of dogs for an hour hike and you will see loads of communication going on. You will hear nothing other than leaves rustling from the passage of paws.
Dogs read eye movements, minute posture changes, etc. Mother nature has programmed him to do virtually all his communication with his eyes. It is all about reading visual “tells”. The dog behavior you see at the field trial is triggered by subtle changes in the handler’s behavior. Obviously there are some odor changes also.
Another example is the dog becoming “electric collar wise”. Generally the signals the dog is reading are the trainer’s subtle behavior changes. When the collar is not present the trainer’s behavior becomes slightly more cautious. His demeanor becomes slightly less commanding. These are the subtle changes that the dog is best equipped and programmed by Mother Nature to read.
 
#10 ·
There are those who know the taste of adrenaline.:shock:
If I can taste it, it stands that the dogs can probably smell it.

And I know for a fact they can sense things.
I would imagine adrenaline rushes are easily sensed by the dogs.
 
#24 ·
I was training with a long time dog trainer and we were talking about how there is no real good way to train for a HT. He also said that he believes the dogs can smell the changes in our bodies persperation and and know that it is from being tense. He said to just relax and have fun and let the dog do it's work that we have trained so hard for. What do some of the handlers here do for a routine before hand to stay relaxed and calm before a test. Alot has been talked about dogs at the line but what about handlers being in the correct state of mind at the line? I alway have a good breakfast and one bloody mary. Whats your routine?
 
#11 ·
i think one of the coolest things about a dogs nose is their interaction with humans. when a dog can tell if a diabetic has low blood sugar it just amazes me. their nose is just awesome.

neat story and could just be a coincidence that my pup may have wanted her head scratched but my pup has never been trained to do the exact thing i just mentioned but my GF is a diabetic and one night watching a movie her blood sugar dropped well belle was laying near her all of a sudden got up (like someone was at the door) but turned toward my GF and started whining and poking her (the poking is normal when she was her head scratched but not the whining). and about that time my gf said she needed some juice to get her blood sugar back up. but for about 15-20 mins my pup would not stop looking at my GF (about the time it takes for the body to recover) before she laid back down. again could have been a coincidence but i think it was my pup was concerned about my GF and knew something was wrong.
 
#13 ·
i think one of the coolest things about a dogs nose is their interaction with humans. when a dog can tell if a diabetic has low blood sugar it just amazes me. their nose is just awesome.

neat story and could just be a coincidence that my pup may have wanted her head scratched but my pup has never been trained to do the exact thing i just mentioned but my GF is a diabetic and one night watching a movie her blood sugar dropped well belle was laying near her all of a sudden got up (like someone was at the door) but turned toward my GF and started whining and poking her (the poking is normal when she was her head scratched but not the whining). and about that time my gf said she needed some juice to get her blood sugar back up. but for about 15-20 mins my pup would not stop looking at my GF (about the time it takes for the body to recover) before she laid back down. again could have been a coincidence but i think it was my pup was concerned about my GF and knew something was wrong.
Dead-on. Cancer, Diabetic blood chemistry levels and more.

I think many of us do not give credit to or acknowledge how good the dog's scent detection and mental scent sorting are.

Robert Milner, let's think about the British dog that discriminates the running hit pheasant from the dozens of unshot ones that are scrambling in front of him. The trial winner is often the one that continues on the scent trail of the cripple, ignoring the flushing birds.
 
#12 ·
Robert, Does this mean you disagree that if one were to turn off the eyes and ears of a seasoned Field Trial or Hunt Test dog, the dog would be able to determine that he/she's at a trial the moment you pull into the scent cone of a trial?

Let's remember the Malanoit's ability to pick the bad guy out of a crowd when tracking. Let's remember the ability of the labrador to slam on his brakes and alert on a small sample of a fertilizer/diesel fuel blend buried 14 inches under the sand. The dogs are not watching the body language of the car theif, nor that of the Al Quida IED planter.
:cool:
 
#14 ·
Scent is a bear!! I know in running hunt tests, the only time, and I mean this, the only time my dog switched is during a hunt test! And it's because of drifting scent off a blind that can pull her off a memery bird in route~! I know, dirt clod drill is needed! Just saying Scent is a huge factor!
 
#15 ·
I love it and I'm I'm totally on board with this! The next time my dog unravels at a hunt test I will rest assured that it has nothing to do with my failures as a trainer. It was that pumped-up, nervous guy that ran ahead of me!!! :D :barf:
 
#16 ·
Of course a dog reacts to odor. Sandia Laboratories did a study in 2002 that determined that a trained explosive detection dog can detect a target odor down in the concentration range of 100 parts per trillion. That in Sandia’s words is “equivalent to one molecule per sniff”. The dog can smell in a manner we cannot conceive of. Of course he responds to odors.
However, the dog’s primary communication mode appears to be visual. This is how he communicates with his peers and with people. “Reading the dog” is visual communication. It goes both ways. The dog reads people as well. The big difference is that dogs read people a lot more readily and more accurately than people read dogs. Though a large portion of human communication is non verbal.
Next time you give a command to a dog, do it with sun glasses on and standing utterly still, with hands in pockets. See what kind of response you get without that subconscious “tell” that probably usually accompanies the command.
 
#18 ·
Ken, I think you are on to a very deep concept here. Notice how the more experienced trainers/handlers on this board seldom use the word, "command"? Yet most newbies refer to the "commands" their dogs have learned and/or respond to. This is kind of an illusive thought, far from being formalized or theorized, but maybe with these retrievers we are shaping their natural desires to suit our ends. So when the "nose" takes over, the communication, via the "eyes", breaks down? Getting too deep even for myself. Anyway, thanks for your post Ken. Anything that gets me thinking this hard is welcome!
 
#20 ·
A dog's sense of smell is beyond my comprehension. They find not just a particular scent, but the most recent scent, or "hottest" scent. It's what we do with in Utility level obedience with the scent articles, they have to find the one you most recently handled.
They are able to locate a bitch in season in a 100,000 square foot venue full of thousands of dogs, from all the way across the venue. A particular bitch that he has smelled, not just any bitch, and I'm betting there are many there that are in season.
It just boggles my mind.

(edit to add....on the other hand, he can run right over a chukkar in cover sometimes, just about stepping on it, and just keep on going :mad: )
 
#22 ·
Although I am not discounting the scenting ability of our dogs, I find myself very much agreeing with Robert Milner. :oops:

I believe they primarily communicate by body language, and read us much better than we'll ever read them.

I hate agreeing with someone who makes his living by dissing my dogs. :evil:
 
#23 ·
I still cant figure out how mine know when were going training or hunting. Maybe I look confuse or something. I have tried to trick them and load stuff up the night before, or let them out the door that morning without loading stuff. Then they will stand there stairing at the truck and in the morning go about my normal routine. When I pick up my keys they take off to the door and stand there with their nose on the door knob
 
#30 ·
Taking away the eyes and ears Chris,
On shoot day's in the winter I can travel up to 50 miles with a truck load in the back with no sight of outside and it's dark when we get home,I have the radio on in the car ,and normally talking crap with a buddy,and having a few cigarettes as well. We can make up to 20 left and right turns with the indicator clicking,and honk the horn at some idiot driver in front,Now I know where I am going but the dogs in the back are curled up and cosy without a peep!..but When I turn of the highway into our estate they all immediately get up and wag the tail,looking out the window.?.....So I am sure they know/do the same on the out run;)
 
#31 ·
My dogs are so good they can tell the difference between a HT and FT. I believe its because they know the sound of Bubba's beer can's being opened and the sound of me mixing ice in the fancy plastic margarita cups the rich chicks at FT's drink.

/Paul
 
#32 ·
Howard, if you turned off your dogs' eyes and ears, and you drove to a Field Trial, do you think they'd know by smell?
Chris, I have never had a blind and deaf dog, I don't know what they'd sense.

But, assuming they weren't senile of something, they'd know from the unpaved bumpy road we were out somewhere where good things happened. They would smell all the trucks, dogs, birds, and lord know what all smells come from a group of trialers trucks, that we were someplace exciting. I don't know what they think of trials, or even if they think about trials. They'd still know that they were someplace exciting.
 
#40 ·

When I first went duck hunting, I would drive over to my buddy's house, and we would load up our dogs and gear in his truck. Then it was off to our leased property. There were some Rail Road tracks about a half mile from our blind. His dog, Boomer, a seasoned veteran, would sleep on the hour or so drive to our blind. But, once we crossed those tracks, she would start whining like a mad woman. She knew we were close to fun times.
 
#33 ·
My 13 year old hates going to the vet always has, It's a bit embarressing but I have to carry a 70 lb through the doors, she gets really nervous , trembles, shakes and I think half her hair falls out, that being said there are 4 ways to get there, it doesn't matter witch way I go and she's in her crate in the back seat ( where she can't see out) she will start this trembling within 200 yards of the building every time, I know she can sense and smell the place, so yes I believe a trial "smells" different than a normal training day
 
#35 ·
Todd,

I have one that just knows "we are almost home" and will start "woofing" in the truck...it doesn't matter if we are going to my in-laws house, to the hotel after a trial, where ever home is, he knows it...

FOM
 
#37 ·
Chris,
To answer your question on scent, a dog that has been to a particular field trial ground before will certainly recognize it by scent upon returning. If it is a ground he has not previously visited then he will certainly recognize the soup of odors from multiple dog trucks etc. that are characteristic of a field trial. As an aside, odor is a primary facet by which he recognizes a particular person. If I sit a person's dog in the parking lot, put a sack of feed on the owner's shoulder to disguise his gait and walk that person by the dog on the upwind side, the dog will not recognize him. The dog will try to get up and move to the downwind side to smell who it is.

Search and rescue dogs regularly demonstrate some fairly complex odor arithmetic. At a certification test you might typically have an acre or so of concrete rubble with 5 or 6 people buried and waiting to be found. There will also be 10 or 15 people standing around close to or upon the rubble pile. The dog has to catalog the odors and only find the victims that are buried. They pretty much ignore all the visible people standing around. That is a fairly complex odor game.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top