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Thread: The "walk-off"

  1. #51
    Senior Member crackerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    Dog running a water triple? We're not talking minor stakes, then. It's too bad that handler screwed up, but if it were a MH test, the rules are quite clear in AKC.
    Umm, we don't use duck calls in field trials.

    The good news is, Vicky trotted out the AKC rule book in an effort to get the tone-deaf, naive and gullible (the ol' trifecta for personality traits you really don't want to summon when commenting on retriever events) to stop yammering on.

    The bad news is - and I'm not referring to you, Renee - they yammer on anyhow. Still, they may have run a derby or a junior hunt test, so perhaps there's the entitlement to their yammering...

    MG

  2. #52
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by william halfrich View Post
    Walk off was do to the handler trainer walking off because judges called one of his clients dogs for a break a few dogs previous. You had to blow the duck call a couple of times to start the trial. Rookie handler did and quietly said sit. Dog ran a perfect water triple and had a near perfect trial all weekend. Trainer that walked off to prove a point to the judges was that he disagreed with their call.His point as also a judge is we as judges are here to judge the dog and should not have disquailified the dog on that minor infraction. Again up to that point the dog was flawless and so was the handler. Point is also made that we need to keep people interested in the sport.I am also a rookie at this game with a 16 month old lab that is being trained. I joined the club in Saulk Rapids and actively participated in their test this last winter. Had a lot of fun. Not sure what to think about the above. I also train with the walk off trainer and I gained a lot of respect for him that day. He handled himself very professionaly and showed the judges no disrespect. Interesting I also atteneded a judging seminar thai past winter at my club that was conducted by AKC. The instructor we had I am pretty sure would have not called that a controled break and pulled the handler off to the side and corrected his mistake. He really drove home the point that as judges we are there to judge the dog.
    First of all welcome to the sport, I hope you have a lot of fun as you and your dog progress in hunt test. That said I really don't believe he drove any point home to the judges, they just upheld a written rule. As a judge in that position I would just shake my head and call for the next dog. I feel for the rooky handler who made the nervous mistake, but that's why we have the Junior stake, to give beginning handlers time on line to make mistakes and learn without being dropped. When a handler steps up to the line in a major stake, newbie or old pro, the standards are high and everybody running expects them to be upheld by the judges.

    John

  3. #53
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleHaul View Post
    It could, but you would never prove it. Handler would just say he scratched his dog.

    As far as dropping the person for speaking after the handler called for the birds, could have been the nicest, most helpful judges in the world but their hands were tied. Similar to a no go on a blind. I have seen many cases where it was obvious that the dog was confused about whether it was sent on a blind, but the rules don't allow for judges to call it confusion, so dog is out. I have seen a lot of judges be douches and drop people for minor things that few would ever drop a person for, but this is cut and dried.
    Pretty strange way to scratch. Probably just going through the process of calling him on it and getting the committee would send a message that this isn't the proper way to scratch your dog.

  4. #54
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackerd View Post
    Umm, we don't use duck calls in field trials.

    The good news is, Vicky trotted out the AKC rule book in an effort to get the tone-deaf, naive and gullible (the ol' trifecta for personality traits you really don't want to summon when commenting on retriever events) to stop yammering on.

    The bad news is - and I'm not referring to you, Renee - they yammer on anyhow. Still, they may have run a derby or a junior hunt test, so perhaps there's the entitlement to their yammering...

    MG


    There are other venues besides AKC. I have run exactly one AKC HT but watched quite a few, and in them the gunners used the duck calls, not the handlers. So maybe it is not an AKC test, in which case the rules quoted may not apply.

    OTOH in the other venues maybe they are allowed to talk to their dog, and the handler blows the duck call as described here. If this is the case, then the scenario is not cut and dried.

    If it were a junior test, a judge might be a little more forgiving but if it is a MH test then a judge might be less forgiving.

    Edit: My point is, if a newbie handler wants to use inexperience as an excuse, maybe he ought to start at the JH level and work his way up.
    Last edited by mitty; 05-20-2013 at 10:14 AM.
    Renee P

  5. #55
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackerd View Post
    we don't use duck calls in field trials.

    ...

    MG
    one of the gunners at our trial a few years ago, as a hoot. blew his duck call before they tossed the bird for the test dog. The judges loved it and had him do it for every dog. Gosh the handlers in the gallery were miffed!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post


    I have run exactly one AKC HT but watched quite a few, and in them the gunners used the duck calls, not the handlers..
    I have started the action at an akc hunt test as a handler by blowing my duck call. Handler called, live gun station called back.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

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  6. #56
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    AKC MH test.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  7. #57
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Pretty strange way to scratch. Probably just going through the process of calling him on it and getting the committee would send a message that this isn't the proper way to scratch your dog.
    I guess I just have seen enough folks scratch their dogs at the line that it doesn't bother me one way or another. In fact, I have done it when it had nothing to do with a protest of any sort. Just one of those things that happens. Everyone is outraged about how this takes resources away from the club when someone does this. I don't agree, but it certainly is a heck of a lot easier on the club than pulling the HT committee from whatever it is they are doing to hold a misconduct hearing. Who knows what would happen. I can't see that I would vote that this behavior--even if the handler admitted he did it--rose to the level of abusing or harassing the judges or officials. I see far worse behavior at the start of every Amateur I have ever marshaled

  8. #58
    Super Moderator Vicky Trainor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post


    There are other venues besides AKC. I have run exactly one AKC HT but watched quite a few, and in them the gunners used the duck calls, not the handlers. So maybe it is not an AKC test, in which case the rules quoted may not apply.

    OTOH in the other venues maybe they are allowed to talk to their dog, and the handler blows the duck call as described here. If this is the case, then the scenario is not cut and dried.

    If it were a junior test, a judge might be a little more forgiving but if it is a MH test then a judge might be less forgiving.

    Edit: My point is, if a newbie handler wants to use inexperience as an excuse, maybe he ought to start at the JH level and work his way up.

    Renee,
    I have judged and run in many AKC Hunting Tests where the handler has used the duck call. Even happened once here in Maryland where the judges had the Junior test handlers blow a duck call. (I wasn't too fond of that as a handler, but it is clearly allowable)
    Vicky
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  9. #59
    Senior Member RockyDog's Avatar
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    Using duck calls to start the test is not that uncommon around here, and should not come as a surprise to anyone running at the Master level.

    Getting back to the original situation in this thread, the handler was guilty of a serious handler fault, that per the AKC regulations was grounds for a DQ. The rulebook is very clear on this if you look at the Classification of Faults section at the back of the book:

    Serious Handler Faults: Serious faults listed cover all those instances where the Standard describes conduct of the handler which in and of itself justifies elimination from the stake.
    1. Lining a dog in marking situations in the direction of any fall or any gun station before all the falls are down.
    2. Talking to the working dog the handler must remain silent from the time the handler signals for the first bird to be thrown until the judges release the dog.

    In this case, the judges had no choice but to DQ the handler, regardless of the quality work the dog had been doing. The second handler needs to read the rule book -- there was no justification for his action.
    Sonia Liedman

    Handled by:
    Rocky's Red Hot Shot "Chip" QAA
    Babyduck's Blueberry Power "Blue"

    Trained by:
    Piva's Gem Rocky "Rocky" MH QAA - RIP
    Swede Grove's Rough Rider "Teddy" JH - RIP

  10. #60
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm off to attach duck caller to whistle lanyard....
    Renee P

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