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Thread: The "walk-off"

  1. #41
    Senior Member crackerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by william halfrich View Post
    Walk off was do to the handler trainer walking off because judges call one of his clients dogs for a break a few dogs previous. ... I also train with the walk off trainer and I gained a lot of respect for him that day. He handled himself very professionaly and showed the judges the respect they are due.
    Yeah, bring it, Aretha: R-E-S-P-E-C-T. How about an analogy? My friend gets ticketed for jaywalking and it burns me up because, you know, everybody does it, but nobody ever does anything about it. Until my friend gets ticketed, and I'm p*ssed. So I decide to tell that mean old "Walk/Don't Walk" sign where to shove it, and do my own "walk-off" into the traffic. And the nice big Freightliner pays me the respect I'm due just as I see it bearing down on me. And my last thought is, "That was some kind of gallant protest I just made, weren't it?"

    MG

  2. #42
    Super Moderator Vicky Trainor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by william halfrich View Post
    I also train with the walk off trainer and I gained a lot of respect for him that day. He handled himself very professionaly and showed the judges the respect they are due.
    If this occurred at an AKC Hunting Test for Retrievers, the Regulations and Guidelines are very clear about saying anything to the dog once the birds are called for:

    Chapter 4

    Section 6. In marking situations, a handler shall not line a dog in the direction of any fall or gun station until all falls are down.
    Once all marks are down and the handler/dog has been released by the judges, a handler may give the dog a line in the direction of any or all falls, provided that such lining is accomplished briskly and precisely. Conspicuously intensive lining suggests a weak marking ability and the dog must be scored low in Marking.

    The handler of the working dog shall remain silent from the time handler signals for the first bird to be thrown until the Judges release the dog. (Bold and coloring for emphasis made by me)
    The handler of the honoring dog may speak quietly to the honoring dog provided the handler does not interfere with other handlers, the working dog(s) or the Judges.
    Note: While speaking quietly to the honoring dog is allowed, threatening gestures or any form of intimidation is not acceptable and shall not be allowed by the Judges.

    *******

    The Regulations and Guidelines do not say “should”, they clearly state “shall”. No getting around that directive. Judges were completely correct in dropping the dog for the handler’s error.

    I’m not sure why you would gain respect for a professional trainer who was ignoring the Regulations and Guidelines. A pro should be mentoring his clients to follow the rules, not break them.
    Last edited by Vicky Trainor; 05-20-2013 at 09:12 AM.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackerd View Post
    Yeah, bring it, Aretha: R-E-S-P-E-C-T. How about an analogy? My friend gets ticketed for jaywalking and it burns me up because, you know, everybody does it, but nobody ever does anything about it. Until my friend gets ticketed, and I'm p*ssed. So I decide to tell that mean old "Walk/Don't Walk" sign where to shove it, and do my own "walk-off" into the traffic. And the nice big Freightliner pays me the respect I'm due just as I see it bearing down on me. And my last thought is, "That was some kind of gallant protest I just made, weren't it?"


    MG
    Was the traffic sign your client? Somehow it wouldn't surprise me if you said "Yes"...

  4. #44
    Senior Member Labs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicky Trainor View Post
    If this occurred at an AKC Hunting Test for Retrievers, the Regulations and Guidelines are very clear about saying anything to the dog once the birds are called for:

    Chapter 4

    Section 6. In marking situations, a handler shall not line a dog in the direction of any fall or gun station until all falls are down.
    Once all marks are down and the handler/dog has been released by the judges, a handler may give the dog a line in the direction of any or all falls, provided that such lining is accomplished briskly and precisely. Conspicuously intensive lining suggests a weak marking ability and the dog must be scored low in Marking.

    The handler of the working dog shall remain silent from the time handler signals for the first bird to be thrown until the Judges release the dog. (Bold and coloring for emphasis made by me)
    The handler of the honoring dog may speak quietly to the honoring dog provided the handler does not interfere with other handlers, the working dog(s) or the Judges.
    Note: While speaking quietly to the honoring dog is allowed, threatening gestures or any form of intimidation is not acceptable and shall not be allowed by the Judges.

    *******

    The Regulations and Guidelines do not say “should”, they clearly state “shall”. No getting around that directive. Judges were completely correct in dropping the dog for the handler’s error.

    I’m not sure why you would gain respect for a professional trainer who was ignoring the Regulations and Guidelines. A pro should be mentoring his clients to follow the rules, not break them.
    Well said! A hunt test is more than just judging a dog do the work. The dog and handler are part of a team, and dogs get dropped every weekend because a handler makes a boneheaded mistake...can't blame anyone else but the handler. I guess its all part of the "its someone else's fault" mentality this country has, and probably why they don't keep score in little league baseball for fear of hurting someone's feelings...

  5. #45
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    This is crazy. Does this stuff really happen? It all seems pretty petty to me, what's the point? To make the judges feel bad? I have seen a lot of crazy test, extreme breaking test, over-under's, flower pots, tricky unfair test, etc, but unless I see some unsafe aspect to the test, I'll keep my mouth shut and give it a shot. If you see something that you believe is unsafe, the time to deal with it is when we are all up there getting ready to watch the test dog. Believe me, Judges don't want to hurt a dog and if they missed something that could, they will happily deal with it.

    I don't know about hunt test, but in AKC field trials there are rules dealing with misconduct, a lot of what has been written here could easily be considered misconduct.

    John

  6. #46
    Senior Member Darin Westphal's Avatar
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    I just hope that if the pro made a protest at the expense of my dog that he'd at least find the decency to not charge me for a handlers fee AND to take my entry fee for the dog off my next months training bill......you feel like you have to protest go for it...but it'd better not be at the expense of my dog.

    And if you gained respect for him for trying to say that the judges should have ignored a rule that's been known about since the dawn of time....that's on you.
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  7. #47
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darin Westphal View Post
    I just hope that if the pro made a protest at the expense of my dog that he'd at least find the decency to not charge me for a handlers fee AND to take my entry fee for the dog off my next months training bill......you feel like you have to protest go for it...but it'd better not be at the expense of my dog.

    And if you gained respect for him for trying to say that the judges should have ignored a rule that's been known about since the dawn of time....that's on you.
    Ditto about 500x.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  8. #48
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by william halfrich View Post
    Walk off was do to the handler trainer walking off because judges call one of his clients dogs for a break a few dogs previous. You had to blow the duck call a couple of times to start the trial. Rookie handler did and quietly said sit. Dog ran a perfect water triple and had a near perfect trial all weekend. Trainer that walked off to prove a point to the judges that he disagreed with their call.His point as also a judge is we as judges are here to judge the dog and should not have disquailified the dog on that minor infraction. Again up to that point the dog was flawless and so was the handler. Point is also made that we need to keep people interested in the sport and this left a very bad taste in the the mouths by many.I am also a rookie at this game with a 16 month old lab that is being trained. I joined the club in Saul Rapids and actively participated in their test this last winter. Had a lot of fun. Not sure what to think about the above. I also train with the walk off trainer and I gained a lot of respect for him that day. He handled himself very professionaly and showed the judges the respect they are due.
    Dog running a water triple? We're not talking minor stakes, then. It's too bad that handler screwed up, but if it were a MH test, the rules are quite clear in AKC.
    Renee P

  9. #49
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by william halfrich View Post
    said sit. very quietly. Nervouse and made a mistake.
    and I have made the same one.
    and I got dropped.
    and nobody protested.
    and if they had
    I would have walloped um up side of the head.
    it ain't the judges fault.
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  10. #50
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    I don't know about hunt test, but in AKC field trials there are rules dealing with misconduct, a lot of what has been written here could easily be considered misconduct.

    John
    It could, but you would never prove it. Handler would just say he scratched his dog.

    As far as dropping the person for speaking after the handler called for the birds, could have been the nicest, most helpful judges in the world but their hands were tied. Similar to a no go on a blind. I have seen many cases where it was obvious that the dog was confused about whether it was sent on a blind, but the rules don't allow for judges to call it confusion, so dog is out. I have seen a lot of judges be douches and drop people for minor things that few would ever drop a person for, but this is cut and dried.

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