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Thread: Labradors - are we splitting the breed?

  1. #1
    Senior Member PennyRetrievers's Avatar
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    Default Labradors - are we splitting the breed?

    Recently we bred our female with a really great FT dog. This is the first time I've ever bred a dog, and so I was reflecting back on the traits that I had been looking for in a stud dog: I didn't care much about color, but I wanted a dog with immense desire. I wanted a dog that was rock steady, and took direction well with it's handler. I wanted a dog with great prey-drive and one who had a reputation as a great marker. Our female is really a looker (who doesn't think their dog is handsome?) and so we wanted to produce puppies that would have that American Field-Bred labrador look to them: muscular body intense gaze, and strong bone structure.

    While I was doing research a few weeks ago, I looked high and low. I looked at almost every labrador in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, and Louisana. There was a ton of talent out there. Occasionally though I'd run into a dog listed "at stud" whose breeder would brag about immensly - as a show dog. Some of these animals almost didn't look like Labradors. They were short, stocky, and sometimes obese. In talking to other dog folks I know, I'd find out that many of these show people were incredibly happy with a dog that could pass an AKC JH test - in other words, some of these Labs, didn't posess the desire to hunt or the ability to do field work beyond a few single retrieves.

    Now, I'm certainly not trying to knock on the Show Dog people. Personally, I have no desire to ever show a dog in a ring, but I understnad that people have dogs for all sorts of different reasons - and that Labs can be sucessful in a variety of disciplines. But the original intent of the breed was to retrieve dead birds. How can we claim that a short, squatty, blockheaded dog, is the same breed as a dog as the incredibly high-powered, very lean atheletes that compete in sporting events?

    Are we splitting the breed?

  2. #2
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyRetrievers View Post
    Are we splitting the breed?
    It has been split for a very long time

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Yep. Been split for decades.

    Evan
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    Senior Member PennyRetrievers's Avatar
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    I guess that was a dumb question. What I meant to say was this: at what point can we definitively say that we've got two different breeds of dog here?

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    Senior Member Richard Finch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    It has been split for a very long time

    This^^^^^


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    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyRetrievers View Post
    I guess that was a dumb question. What I meant to say was this: at what point can we definitively say that we've got two different breeds of dog here?
    2 or 3 decades ago

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    Senior Member fishin444's Avatar
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    I think what you are looking for is an American type lab as opposed to the English type. Which tend to be short, stocky, block head. The English type dogs are by no means slackers when it comes to hunting. With the internet you should be able to find a suitable Stud for your girl. I would start with the stud dog ads in RNT myself.
    Last edited by fishin444; 05-13-2013 at 12:26 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member PennyRetrievers's Avatar
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    Yeah, we bred her with FC AFC Wing Magic's Louisana Roux MH. I knew what I was looking for, and I realized that the gap was pretty wide between both forms, but I didn't realize how wide it was until I really started doing some reading.

    I guess what concerns me is that less scrupulous breeders could breed a "champion" show dog with an MNH or NFC dog and create a creature which was a "labrador retriever" but served neither purpose. How is this ok?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Lots of threads on this and lots of arguments, the breed is not officially split, and I don't see that happening. If it did happen, most likely we'd split just end up splitting it again. So for now there's an uneasy truths btw Show and Field in many of the Retriever breeds. Sort've like your strange out of towner cousins, that you only talk to at a family gathering. The competitive nature of Show (Conformation) and Field (FT) venues will continue to put up the dogs that can win above other considerations. We'll just continue to drift from each other, neither Field or Show are really interested in putting forth much effort to change or participate in the other venue. It's good that some conformation dogs do at least they try with HT's etc. However FT type dog would have a hard time in show, playing that game would take away from FT, such titles would not really do anything for an FC-AFC type dog, so realistically Why would they bother?

    It is Field vs. Show (Conformation) the same spilt is seen in every country, whether British, German, Australian etc. There's no English short stocky Lab or American long legged, there are dogs of both types bred in each country, they are simply bred for a different focus-purpose, but both are bred to Win.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 05-13-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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    Senior Member Bubba's Avatar
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    Good Lowered- do you have any idea how many electrons have met their death whipping this poor old long dead equine?

    Get over it and move on regards

    Bubba
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