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Thread: Lymphoma in a pregnant Lab

  1. #11
    Senior Member mostlygold's Avatar
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    Lymphoma is not hereditary. Certain breeds are predisposed, including Goldens. Predisposition is not the same as hereditary. Tat particular dog may have had something that compromised her immune system at a young age.

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  2. #12
    Senior Member Cedarswamp's Avatar
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    I would worry to a degree. My girl was 10 1/2 when we had to have her put down.

    The question I would have (to an oncologist) is "are the cancer cells in the blood and if so could transfer through the placenta be possible and the same for the milk". If the answer is no to both, then not as much. However, my vet did make a comment a while back when I had a mammary tumor removed (that was cancerous) and a spay done at the same time, that it wouldn't do good for the puppies to be nursing on a gland that had cancer in it.

    But when there's an emotional attachment (such as wanting a pup out of your bitch), then you have to make that decision on your own. If you're looking at a litter, you always have the option of not buying from that litter.
    High Tess JH
    Cedar Swamp's Cuttin a Rug "Josie"
    Cedar Swamp's Holy Terror JH "Terra"
    Blackfoot's Mr Independence at Cedar Swamp JH "Pow"
    Cedar Swamp's Angel in Disguise "Sky"
    Cedar Swamp's Test Pilot "Crash"
    Cedar Swamp's Bonanza "Ben"
    Cedar Swamp's Twisted Sister "Sissy"

    Others have also graced our hearts...gone not forgotten.
    RC Buckshot of Seven Hickories MH
    Ceader Swamp's Deuces Wild SH
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    and several others...

  3. #13
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    My response about worrying about the puppies is emotional, not based on fact, maybe because I have Goldens and the incidence of cancer is so very high in the breed it would always be in the back of my mind.

    A friend of mine and I were discussing it, and her is what she emailed to me. Thought I'd share (with permission):

    "...about a week before (whelping) I noticed she was abnormally thin. When she had the pups she was very lazy, which was not usual for her. She had 9 or 10 pups and when I tried to give her some meds after delivery, her lymph nodes had popped up big and hard overnight, and she had them behind the knees, on the chest. We actually were treating it as an infection because her calcium levels were high because she was nursing, not the expected numbers for lymphoma. She nursed them for 2 1/2 weeks and we were going to try a more potent antibiotic so took the pups off. She started to go down hill quickly, was rectally bleeding so we had to put her down....The vet said that the hormones of pregnancy will accelerate the lymphoma, but that it probably would have developed eventually if she was not pregnant. The pups were normal weight, and I can tell you at least half of the pups lived past 10 years....I do not think it affected the pups in any way....Predisposition is not the same as hereditary. That particular dog may have had something that compromised her immune system at a young age. An oncologist told another buyer the same thing.
    As far as the viability of the puppies, I would think the earlier the lymphoma was detected, the higher the risk the mother would die before the pups were born, or she would reabsorb or abort, since the experience I had, the pups were within a week of delivery when I noticed physical symptoms (bitch was very thin)."

    Barb Gibson
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    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Cedarswamp's Avatar
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    Barb, I'm with you on it...I meant for the bitch owner it would/could be an emotional choice. It's not something to take lightly either way...what if say 2 weeks out the bitch gives "that look"...do you put her down knowing the pups were "that close" or keep her living to have the litter and more than likely have to have a c-section. I'd have plasma/colostrum either way in the event that she didn't make it (I know Revival sells it, the woman I talked to had to try to sell me some, guess they get commission).
    High Tess JH
    Cedar Swamp's Cuttin a Rug "Josie"
    Cedar Swamp's Holy Terror JH "Terra"
    Blackfoot's Mr Independence at Cedar Swamp JH "Pow"
    Cedar Swamp's Angel in Disguise "Sky"
    Cedar Swamp's Test Pilot "Crash"
    Cedar Swamp's Bonanza "Ben"
    Cedar Swamp's Twisted Sister "Sissy"

    Others have also graced our hearts...gone not forgotten.
    RC Buckshot of Seven Hickories MH
    Ceader Swamp's Deuces Wild SH
    Fallen Timber's Second Chance MH
    Ceader Swamp's Mac Millett SH
    and several others...

  5. #15
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    My male lab had lymphoma at 7 years. Obviously not the same concerns as you have for your friend's pregnant female. My dog had chemo and radiation. He was in remission for over four years. He made a full recovery and lived for 4 healthy active years. He was a hero at the oncologist's office. He died at 11 1/2 years after developing a sarcoma in his elbow and then a tumor in his heart. I was told the average remission time was only a year but we gave it a shot anyway knowing we could stop treatment anytime, but immediate start of treatment time was crucial. We won that gamble somehow. IT WAS A GREAT 4 YEARS! He was euthanized because of the debilitating heart tumor - passed away on the family room floor with his head in my lap on a cold Winter morning. But he DIDN'T die of lymphoma...

  6. #16
    Senior Member suepuff's Avatar
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    Speaking of Colostrum for those pups. If the decision is to have the litter and the possibility is for the mother not to survive, do have some Fresh Frozen Plasma on hand. Adds antibodies that the pups won't get if they don't get colostrum.

    Found here: http://hemopet.org/blood-bank/products-a-services.html

    Jennifer will figure out how much you need and they ship next day. All instructions are included. Here is a short description:

    he primary use of both FFP and Serum is to take advantage of the antibodies to diseases that they carry. These products/antibodies can be used on all newborn puppies as a matter of regular newborn care to boost their general over-all immunities. Hemopet recommends that FFP be administered to all normal, healthy looking, nursing puppies within 24 hours of birth. It can be placed via feeding tube into the stomach or it can be given as a sub q injection at the back of the neck. After 24 hours of age, the stomach has ‘matured’ and will no longer accept the larger molecule of the plasma and must be injected subcutaneously. If a puppy appears to be struggling, weak, or fading the recommendation is to give a total of three doses starting at birth or shortly thereafter, 12 hours of age and 24 hours of age. You can choose between feeding tube or sub q injection at anytime in the first 24 hours of age. After 24 hours of age, it must be administered sub cutaneously. At any age that a puppy appears to be having difficulties, you can feel safe using FFP to strengthen and boost the immune system of your puppies. You will need a sterile syringe and needle for each dose. A ten cc syringe and a short needle; ¾ inch to 1 inch long, 22 or 23 gauge is an appropriate set up for any breed. Here is the basic formula for knowing how much serum should be given, but remember that Hemopet has excellent staff members who will also instruct you and can email instructions to you.

    Translate the weight (in oz) of puppies into CC’s first. For instance:
    12 ounce puppy = 12 cc’s
    8 ounce puppy = 8 cc’s
    20 ounce puppy = 20 cc’s

    Then divide the cc’s by 4. For instance:
    12 cc’s divided by 4 = 3 ccs…..that is the dose you will administer
    8 cc’s divided by 4 = 2 ccs
    20 cc’s divided by 4 = 5 ccs

    Sue Puff
    Sue Puffenbarger
    Wirtz, VA
    www.boynelabradors.com

  7. #17
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Follow up from today's appointment. The dog has Stage 4 Lymphoma. Only her spleen is affected by the lymphoma, none of the other organs. Today they confirmed she is pregnant. Depending on how she handles the chemo will be the deciding factor whether the pups are aborted or not. It is a long journey for this dog but she came home today much better than when she left. The chemo was Vincristine and she is also on Prednisone. There are a number of other drugs given to my friend to deal with the side effects from the chemo. Thanks for your comments. It is wait and see!!
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
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    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
    Uncle Ray

  8. #18
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    The outcome of my friend's Lab Mandy was not good. She survived all the chemo like a trouper but this morning I received an Email-Mandy was put down last evening. I enclosed the heartworming tribute my friend wrote. Amazing this bond between us and our dogs. This is hard to read and longish but I posted the tribute anyways b/c most of us can understand and emphasize! Hug your dog today. Their lives are far too short on this earth!


    "I am at a loss as to how to begin......but this note is to those of you whom I have crossed paths
    with, those of you who have loved a four legged companion and in return have been given the
    privilege to be loved back so entirely that it takes your breath away.
    That is the joy that Mandy has brought me over the past eight years. She was one of a kind, a
    once in a life time dog. For those of you who got to know her, to be greeted by her, you will
    understand how much I am going to miss her, for I had to say goodbye to her tonight. It was
    very difficult to say goodbye to sweetness, to kindness...... Everyone needs someone in their life
    that makes them feel important. I never knew why, but Mandy adored me and although she liked
    other people she only had eyes for me. I always said she was my EGO dog. She told me in so
    many ways that I was special to her.
    Mandy was born here at Winstead Farm in October of 2005 and I knew from the beginning of
    her life that she was the puppy that was going to stay here and grow up here like her mother,
    Cassie and her father Gadjet and her grandmother Emma and grandfather, Andy had done. Her
    brothers and sisters all headed to their wonderful new homes and Mandy began her journey,
    here with me.
    Mandy was an easy dog. She was obedient and so willing to please you at every turn. She
    never needed a leash as she was always glued to my side.....whither thou goest, I too will go....
    It was throughout the years that I came to appreciate Mandy's character or just the fact
    that she was a "character". There was never a time, when I came into the
    door that I was not greeted by a beautiful black Lab with something stuffed in her mouth and a
    tail beating so hard that it made the house vibrate. She loved pillows and would grab one
    and carry it around and finally lay down with the pillow still in her mouth looking at
    me......she was always looking at me if I were in the room.....always ready to be with me, go
    with me, "I'm your partner; you need me." If she had nothing to put in her mouth she
    would gently take your hand or your arm and just hold it. She did that to me often and only to
    those she trusted and liked. And Mandy had an incredible bounce..straight up and down...never
    touching you but it just said, "I just know I will love whatever you have planned." And she did.
    From the time she was a puppy she loved to get the mail and carry it proudly to the house. She
    loved to pick up anything that I asked for and bring it to me.....shoes, socks...... She was our
    Remote Control carrier as she gently would carry it back and forth between Roy and I. She
    always gave her paws to you when you stuck out your hand and asked her, " How are you?"
    She slept beside the bed, never asked to get on but when six o'clock arrived she sat up and
    stared at you, never moving."Get up!" that look said....... Yes, she was a character.Mandy was tall, nicely
    boned....a beauty. She raised one litter of puppies with her friend Luke and made more people happy as they passed on their sweet natures to all of their offspring. Before her litter of puppies she had started to
    learn how to do the sport of Agility. She liked to do anything that we were doing. She would say, "I'll give it a try." Mandy was a people dog and all of our other Labs knew their place with her.....her one major
    Rule......you are not allowed on my bed or in my sleeping area. They all conformed.
    Over the years I have always noticed that our dogs will pair up and have a friend amongst our
    pack of critters. Although Mandy liked Luke, she enjoyed Betsey's company. She and Bets went
    on mousing excursions together. It made me smile to see them trotting or sniffing the ground
    side by side. They liked each other's company. In the past few months Mandy, of her choice,
    has slept down stairs and Bets just stayed with her.....a real friend.
    This past June Mandy developed Lymphoma. It came on quickly and Roy and I and our
    veterinarian decided to give her the best chance to beat this disease and take her to Guelph.
    She was given an twenty-five week protocol of chemo. In the beginning it was very
    overwhelming for we humans, but for Mandy it was just another car ride and as long as we were
    with her she would say, "I'll give it a try." She never whined or complained, for dogs do not do
    that. She was calm and quiet and everyone who had to work with her wanted to keep her. She
    became somewhat of a celebrity. She knew more people that Roy and I. When we took her to
    Guelph strangers came up to her and greeted her and she would wag her tail and stand quietlyDecember 10th was her last chemo date. We were relieved and religiously returned to our vet
    for regular check ups. Crossing our fingers in hope that we had beat this disease. In the
    meantime one of Mandy's daughters, Whisper by name, had presented the world with a litter of
    puppies...Mandy's grand children. I wanted a Mandy grand daughter. Her name is Flicka and
    she has been touched by Mandy's presence thoroughly as just the three of us would walk
    together morning and night. In the beginning Mandy would ignore her or tell her to quit bugging
    her. Then as the weeks passed she would take the puppy teasing and even play with her. Flicka
    quickly learned the "bed" rule and fit right in with the rest of the gang.
    And so our days passed from one into another. We took each day as it came and enjoyed the companionship
    that is offered by these wonderful creatures. Today had been a normal day. We went for our walks, all of the
    dogs ate had their treats. Mandy, Luke and Rush went for a car ride to an orchard.....all had an apple.......we
    did up doggy chores, Mandy, Rush, Luke and Flicka came out to the boarding kennel to help. We were just
    cleaning up the table from supper...the dogs always lick the plates, when Mandy got a strange look on her face and then just seem to collapse. We carried her to the car and headed to the emergency clinic at Guelph..a long two hour drive. We had called ahead. They did a thorough check up and felt that Mandy had a tumour that must have burst. We then discussed our choices for Mandy...... The vet had said that it was
    not her lymphoma, that her glands were normal, but it was her spleen. The vet and her assistant
    were very compassionate. She gave us time to say our goodbyes. ........ Mandy was my
    soulmate, my friend and constant companion..... She is now with her Maker and Roy and I will
    miss her terribly.
    I know that any of you who have her sisters or brothers or one of her puppies or have even just
    met her will understand our sorrow.
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI
    Metras's Hashtag Mickey
    Pink Lady



    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
    Uncle Ray

  9. #19
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    My condolences to your friend. A hard loss. They are all hard. Some more so than others. A beautiful tribute.
    Susan

    FC Tribute to Justice, JH "Honor"
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
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    Your friend has my deepest sympathy. What a wonderful life she gave and was given. Below, while long, is what I honestly believe any well loved, cherished dog would want his grieving "owner" to know:

    I, SILVERDENE EMBLEM O'NEILL (familiarly known to my family, friends, and acquaintances as Blemie), because the burden of my years and infirmities is heavy upon me, and I realize the end of my life is near, do hereby bury my last will and testament in the mind of my Master. He will not know it is there until after I am dead. Then, remembering me in his loneliness, he will suddenly know of this testament, and I ask him then to inscribe it as a memorial to me.
    I have little in the way of material things to leave. Dogs are wiser than men. They do not set great store upon things. They do not waste their days hoarding property. They do not ruin their sleep worrying about how to keep the objects they have, and to obtain the objects they have not. There is nothing of value I have to bequeath except my love and my faith. These I leave to all those who have loved me, to my Master and Mistress, who I know will mourn me most, to Freeman who has been so good to me, to Cyn and Roy and Willie and Naomi and -- But if I should list all those who have loved me, it would force my Master to write a book. Perhaps it is vain of me to boast when I am so near death, which returns all beasts and vanities to dust, but I have always been an extremely lovable dog.

    I ask my Master and Mistress to remember me always, but not to grieve for me too long. In my life I have tried to be a comfort to them in time of sorrow, and a reason for added joy in their happiness. It is painful for me to think that even in death I should cause them pain. Let them remember that while no dog has ever had a happier life (and this I owe to their love and care for me), now that I have grown blind and deaf and lame, and even my sense of smell fails me so that a rabbit could be right under my nose and I might not know, my pride has sunk to a sick, bewildered humiliation. I feel life is taunting me with having over-lingered my welcome. It is time I said good-bye, before I become too sick a burden on myself and on those who love me. It will be sorrow to leave them, but not a sorrow to die. Dogs do not fear death as men do. We accept it as part of life, not as something alien and terrible which destroys life. What may come after death, who knows? I would like to believe with those of my fellow dogs, that there is a Paradise where one is always young and full-bladdered; where all the day one dillies and dallies with an amorous multitude of houris, beautifully spotted; where jack rabbits that run fast but not too fast (like the houris) are as the sands of the desert; where each blissful hour is mealtime; where in long evenings there are a million fireplaces with logs forever burning, and one curls oneself up and blinks into the flames and nods and dreams, remembering the old brave days on earth, and the love of one's Master and Mistress.

    I am afraid this is too much for even such a dog as I am to expect. But peace, at least, is certain. Peace and long rest for weary old heart and head and limbs, and eternal sleep in the earth I have loved so well. Perhaps, after all, this is best.

    One last request I earnestly make. I have heard my Mistress say, "When Blemie dies we must never have another dog. I love him so much I could never love another one." Now I would ask her, for love of me, to have another. It would be a poor tribute to my memory never to have a dog again. What I would like to feel is that, having once had me in the family, now she cannot live without a dog! I have never had a narrow jealous spirit. I have always held that most dogs are good (and one cat, the black one I have permitted to share the living room rug during the evenings, whose affection I have tolerated in a kindly spirit, and in rare sentimental moods, even reciprocated a trifle). He can hardly be as well bred or as well mannered or as distinguished and handsome as I was in my prime. My Master and Mistress must not ask the impossible. But he will do his best, I am sure, and even his inevitable defects will help by comparison to keep my memory green. To him I bequeath my collar and leash and my overcoat and raincoat, made to order in 1929 at Hermes in Paris. He can never wear them with the distinction I did, walking around the Place Vendôme, or later along Park Avenue, all eyes fixed on me in admiration; but again I am sure he will do his utmost not to appear a mere gauche provincial dog. Here on the ranch, he may prove himself quite worthy of comparison, in some respects. He will, I presume, come closer to jack rabbits than I have been able to in recent years. And for all his faults, I hereby wish him the happiness I know will be his in my old home.
    "You can put pressure on a dog, you can’t take it back…"

    Mitch Patterson '07

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