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Thread: All-Age Judging Question

  1. #21
    Senior Member Kyle B's Avatar
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    If its this close, I'd try to assign relative weight's to each mark and blind. If it's an incredibly difficult water blind then it may get a high weighting similar to the toughest mark. If its a dink go bird flyer or a simple short land blind then the weighting would be relatively low. You wouldn't do this till the test are over and you begin to try to sort out placements, so failures are still failures, but if they are still there in the end then you obviously haven't failed them.

    Haven't done this often, but have resorted to it after looking at the same two papers for an inordinate amount of time discussing the relative merits of a step this way or a turn that way.

  2. #22
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Was the flier last bird down, was it very long or very short from the guns and significantly different than the others, was the mark itself long or short, was the hunt fast or methodical, was the AOF cover relatively uniform, was the hunt sensible even though long, lots of things to consider. If it was a normal flier in a uniform area the hunt described as "long and lengthy" would probably create a legitimate reason for that dog to not get the win depending on how average the other dogs blinds were.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Was the flier last bird down, was it very long or very short from the guns and significantly different than the others, was the mark itself long or short, was the hunt fast or methodical, was the AOF cover relatively uniform, was the hunt sensible even though long, lots of things to consider. If it was a normal flier in a uniform area the hunt described as "long and lengthy" would probably create a legitimate reason for that dog to not get the win depending on how average the other dogs blinds were.
    Flyer was the last bird down/go-bird. The flyer was in heavy cover (the entire field used was heavy cover). Flyer was at approx. 100 yds, run from a mound to short swim then up & out. The hunt was stylish for both dogs. Dog 1 went directly to the bird & came up with it quickly. Dog 2 initially went inside of the fall then went deep of the fall (the fall was very similar & consistent to the fall of the flyer for dog 1), hunted with style but in a large arcing manner back & forth covering a lot of ground, wide to both sides of the fall and deep of the fall before eventually slowing down and using its nose to zero in on the bird, coming in to the bird, and retrieving the bird.

    And of course the dilemma is which to consider stronger, the consistently excellent marks of dog 1 with a below average water blind versus dog 2 with 4 excellent marks, one very good mark & one below avg mark & two excellent blinds. The water blind required precision timing of whistles to be excellent because of the limited visibility of the dog if the dog got much off line.
    David Didier, GA

  4. #24
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    For me the answer is there is no obvious right or wrong, your description of the hunt on the flier sounds to me to not be bad enough to use it as the decision maker but without seeing it and the other work it is only speculation. The typical and more widely accepted decision would be to give the dog with perfect marks the win.

  5. #25
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    For me the answer is there is no obvious right or wrong, your description of the hunt on the flier sounds to me to not be bad enough to use it as the decision maker but without seeing it and the other work it is only speculation. The typical and more widely accepted decision would be to give the dog with perfect marks the win.
    Agree with both bolded points.
    Bill Davis

  6. #26
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    For me the answer is there is no obvious right or wrong, your description of the hunt on the flier sounds to me to not be bad enough to use it as the decision maker but without seeing it and the other work it is only speculation. The typical and more widely accepted decision would be to give the dog with perfect marks the win.

    Just goes to show the subjectivity in judging. Contrary to what Bill just wrote, I would put my emphasis on a different portion of Ed's post
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  7. #27
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    Just goes to show the subjectivity in judging. Contrary to what Bill just wrote, I would put my emphasis on a different portion of Ed's post
    I didn't write anything except to agree with two statements. The first was that the description of the flyer didn't sound bad enough to be the decision maker without seeing it

    The second was the typical and widely accepted decision would be to go with the dog with the "perfect" marks.

    Typical and widely accepted generalizes judges... I agree that many judges may make that choice automatically, but didn't say I would.

    In fact, I probably tend to lean a little heavier towards a dog that had two excellent blinds over one with a big hunt on a flyer. But like most are saying... How, can you make the judgement without seeing the dogs actually work?
    Last edited by huntinman; 06-04-2013 at 12:22 PM.
    Bill Davis

  8. #28
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    Tough to make judgments without seeing all 4 series...and just about as tough to make the decision having seen the dogs run in this case. And I think how a judge decides will tell his understanding, rather his interpretation of the rules that govern.
    David Didier, GA

  9. #29
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    I'd prefer dog #2, to win, to me he seems to be the better dog all around for the day, good marks and control/blind. If blinds are worth nothing why run them, just put on another marking series or 2 separate the dogs that way. Still would have to have seen the flyer, and if there were conditions to where it landed etc. flyer in a hole, or in cover which the other contenders didn't have, flyer walking etc. Would also have to seen-compare line manners of both etc.

    Of course Which handler paid me the most $ . What about the possibility that Dog #3 wins, because he's owned by some-one of note, well known pro, a well-known dog of impeccable breeding, handler-dog with a nice buttock , a client-friend needing a win-or some points for title or National qualification etc. I'm sure I'm kidding although there are interesting results sometimes.
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  10. #30
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    ... IF it turned out that after comparing the dogs marks bird by bird, the long suits and the shortfalls of each dog on each bird were such that the comparison did not produce a winner, I would then factor the work on the blinds into the mix.

    If a winner was found in the initial comparison of the marks there would be no such factoring of a/the passing blind/s , the dog with the best marks would win.

    john
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