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Thread: First they came for

  1. #1
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Default First they came for

    You lost another of your Constitutional rights Yesterday. The Supreme Court decided that the police can seize a sample of your DNA against your will and store it in perpetuity as soon as you're arrested for a "serious" crime, with "serious" to be defined by the government. So go ahead and add that to the list, America. We no longer have a free press; we have reporters being intimidated and searched for reporting on the government. We no longer have freedom of speech; we are monitored and subjected to scrutiny for daring to believe in independence, a flat tax, or gun rights. Our right to bear arms is being chipped away daily; we are told that the government will protect us from government tyranny, and that we shouldn't worry about what that government might be doing with two billion rounds of ammunition. We no longer have a right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure; we're required to submit DNA samples against our will, and can have all of our emails read and phone calls monitored without a warrant. We no longer have a right to due process or trial by jury; US citizens can be murdered from the sky by a drone based solely on the word of a lawyer working at the White House. Yahoo had a headline yesterday stating that the people may not actually have the right to vote.
    Where does it end, America? For years now those who have espoused the erosion of our right and the move to a police state have been called crays or extremist. Guys I know we have all read the old addage from the beginning of Natzi Germany....first they came for the... Guess what? You just woke up and found out they have already gone far down the list of who they have come for and better realize they are coming for you and your way of life very very soon. The gooberment is not your friend and certainly do not have your best interest in mind.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
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    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    ....Where does it end, America? ....
    41 months, give or take
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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    I think the ruling only applies AFTER a suspect has been arrested ... and falls into the same category as fingerprinting all who are arrested. DNA is another type of "fingerprint".
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    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    I think the ruling only applies AFTER a suspect has been arrested ... and falls into the same category as fingerprinting all who are arrested. DNA is another type of "fingerprint".
    Key words suspect and arrested. Suspect doesn't mean your guilty and why should the government get to attain my DNA before I'm proven guilty in court. Lots of innocent people are arrested.
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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duk4me View Post
    Key words suspect and arrested. Suspect doesn't mean your guilty and why should the government get to attain my DNA before I'm proven guilty in court. Lots of innocent people are arrested.
    All who are arrested are fingerprinted and have a mug shot taken. Do they get to withhold their fingerprints? In what way is DNA different from fingerprints?

    Not trying to be ornery here ... but DNA collection has also been used to provide proof of innocence for someone previously wrongfully convicted. Two sides to this coin?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    All who are arrested are fingerprinted and have a mug shot taken. Do they get to withhold their fingerprints? In what way is DNA different from fingerprints?

    Not trying to be ornery here ... but DNA collection has also been used to provide proof of innocence for someone previously wrongfully convicted. Two sides to this coin?
    I'm not going to pretend to know something that I don't know but is there a possibilty that two ( or more ) people can have the same DNA. How much in depth testing on the DNA will be done to convict. I match one lady on one of my lists. She is not a close relative. In fact we have found no common ancestor. Futher testing ( more in depth ) may reveal that we do not match. DNA is not as advanced as some would have us believe that it is.
    I think that this ruling is way premature.
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    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charly_t View Post
    I'm not going to pretend to know something that I don't know but is there a possibilty that two ( or more ) people can have the same DNA. How much in depth testing on the DNA will be done to convict. I match one lady on one of my lists. She is not a close relative. In fact we have found no common ancestor. Futher testing ( more in depth ) may reveal that we do not match. DNA is not as advanced as some would have us believe that it is.
    I think that this ruling is way premature.
    Identical twins will have identical DNA, but otherwise, no. I am not as appalled at the taking of the DNA as I am by the ability to keep it once exonerated. I feel the same way about fingerprints and was very unhappy when they started taking a thumbprint for the driver's license. What is the purpose there? It's the main reason I have never applied for a CCP.
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    Senior Member helencalif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charly_t View Post
    is there a possibilty that two ( or more ) people can have the same DNA. How much in depth testing on the DNA will be done to convict. I match one lady on one of my lists. She is not a close relative. In fact we have found no common ancestor. Futher testing ( more in depth ) may reveal that we do not match. DNA is not as advanced as some would have us believe that it is.
    I think that this ruling is way premature.
    I am curious about your statement that you match one lady, but she is not a close relative, and that you have found no common ancestor. I am assuming this is DNA testing for genealogical purposes. You then say that further testing may reveal that you do not match.

    It sounds like you had a very limited DNA test. Please explain.

    Or, is it possible that she is a close relative and that you do have a common ancestor? There have been many who have taken DNA testing for genealogical purposes and discovered some surprises in their lineage -- daddy not daddy, momma not momma, and/or neither were their natural parents. Administrators of DNA testing for surname groups often have to counsel those who have had such surprises. Most typically is Y-DNA testing (males) that turn up surprises -- their daddy was not their natural father, grandpa not their grandpa etc.
    My husband was DNA tested (the full testing). I held my breath because I feared there might be an error in my research which went back 12 generations to his 1635 immigrant. Whew, he matched all of the other males who have been fully DNA tested back to that immigrant.

    Helen
    Last edited by helencalif; 06-04-2013 at 02:34 PM.

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    on the surface I have no problem having to submit a DNA sample WHEN arrested.....now if you are asking me to submit a DNA sample for no other reason than to fill a data base, THEN I have a problem

    IF a DNA sample were to be used for voter ID purposes , I could be talked into that...but we all know that will never happen
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    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    DNA is in no way similar to a fingerprint. Fingerprints have one use, identification. The uses for DNA are endless far, far beyond identification. A simple sample of DNA can reveal basically every gene you have including those the predispose you to genetic disease, ethnic heratige, not to mention the ability to clone.

    The government will soon be running healthcare administration. I don't want the government determine what treatment or at what cost based on my genetic predisposition to a specific disease. Remember the IRS is the enforcement are of the ACA and it is evident they are an upstanding organization that would never screw the people.
    Why is ethnic heratige important. I certainly hope it never is, good thing governments have never been guilty of genocide or ethnic discrimination. Land of the free?

    Cloning you ask? Yes cloning. In addition to conventional cloning, I know first hand that the technology exist right now that would allow me, yes me, to create and oocyte and sperm from DNA? From that, given a woman with a working uterus I could grow a child. While the possibility of the government using our DNA to clone an army of drones is far fetched keep in mind that the possibility of landing on mars and seeing video of the planet was much more far fetched that cloning is today.

    This is says you can be forced to submit a sample if arrested for a "serious" crime with serious yet to be defined. This should set off alarms in everyone's head liberal, conservative, or otherwise. Arrested people are innocent until proven guilty the last I knew. What is the difference legally speaking in a "serious" crime and a traffic ticket? What about a DUI or spousal abuse? Why one and not the other?

    This is about far more than taking DNA from convicted criminal who give u their rights upon conviction. I promise you in the near future you will be subjected to providing yours for a "medical" database, or convinced it is in the best interest of the public to have everyone's DNA registered to protect them and provide the best healthcare.

    Those of you who know me know I am not a crazy right wing tinfoil hat wearing kind of guy. I don't have to wait for the manure to fill my boots before I know I am standing in a growing pile.

    Slippery slope regards.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

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