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Thread: How do you judge flyer hunts?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Yes!

    I did say in my reply that I would take into consideration the factors involved as to how large the AOF would be.

    distance, and order in the triple, would be a couple of factorsthen.


    Why do I have this strange feeling of being a very juvenile ,gullible Brown trout, and Ed ha just drifted a elk hair caddis perfectly over my head?

    Go to http://images.akc.org/pdf/rulebooks/RFTRET.pdf look into the definition of Area of Fall and report back
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  2. #12
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    Natural Abilities
    (1) Accurate marking, or memory of “falls’’ is of paramount importance. However, this does not imply that dogs which excel in marking shall not be severely penalized, or even eliminated, for deficiencies in, or a lack of the other required “abilities.’’ However, in Derby stakes the ability to “mark’’ is all-important and dogs that are handled on a mark in a Derby Stake shall be eliminated. Even in our most exacting stakes, tests are usually so devised that “marked’’ birds constitute a large percentage of the retrieves by which each dog’s performance is judged.
    Ability to “mark’’ does not necessarily imply “pin- pointing the fall.’’ A dog that misses the “fall’’ on the first cast, but recognizes the depth of the “area of the fall,’’ stays in it, then quickly and systematically “hunts- it-out,’’ has done both a creditable and an intelligent job of marking. Such work should not be appreciably out-scored by the dog that “finds’’ or “pinpoints’’ on his first cast. However, a dog which consistently, i.e., during an entire stake, marks his birds in a closer area, hence, more accurately than another dog, should be judged

    What precisely constitutes the “area of the ‘fall’ ” defies accurate definition; yet, at the outset of every test, each Judge must arbitrarily define its hypothetical boundaries for himself, and for each bird in that test, so that he can judge whether dogs have remained within his own concept of “area of the ‘fall,’ ’’ as well as how far they have wandered away from “the area’’ and how much cover they have disturbed unnecessarily. In determining these arbitrary and hypothetical boundaries of the “area of the ‘fall,’ ’’ due considerations should be given to various factors: (1) the type, the height and the uniformity of the cover, (2) light conditions, (3) direction of the prevailing wind and its intensity, (4) length of the various falls, (5) the speed of individual dogs, (6) whether there is a change in cover (as from stubble to plowed ground, or to ripe alfalfa, or to machine-picked corn, etc.) or whether the “fall’’ is beyond a hedge, across a road, or over a ditch, etc., and, finally, and most important, (7) whether one is establishing the “area of the ‘fall’ ’’ for a single, or for the first bird a dog goes for, in multiple retrieves, or for the second or the third bird, since each of these should differ from the others.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Jay Dufour's Avatar
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    Twice in the open my young dog marked a flier that curled back behind the guns and was shot,where received a no bird.Three dogs later he gets a good flier ,yet goes behind the gun where he marked the no bird....nothing there , goes straight to the flier and gets the retireds nicely.They dropped him on one, and called him back on the other. Just another thing that happens on fliers.

  4. #14
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Dufour View Post
    Twice in the open my young dog marked a flier that curled back behind the guns and was shot,where received a no bird.Three dogs later he gets a good flier ,yet goes behind the gun where he marked the no bird....nothing there , goes straight to the flier and gets the retireds nicely.They dropped him on one, and called him back on the other. Just another thing that happens on fliers.
    Sometimes judges forget that calling a no bird does not erase that fall from a dog's memory, a notation of such falls helps explain things. It is also important to call no bird as soon as it is obvious that something untoward has occurred rather than allowing the dog to watch the entire fall.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Sometimes judges forget that calling a no bird does not erase that fall from a dog's memory, a notation of such falls helps explain things. It is also important to call no bird as soon as it is obvious that something untoward has occurred rather than allowing the dog to watch the entire fall.

    Also important for handler to get dog out of there as soon as possible, so that flyer is not imprinted in the dog's memory
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Jay Dufour's Avatar
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    Especially if you train on interrupted setups. Ha !

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Sometimes judges forget that calling a no bird does not erase that fall from a dog's memory, a notation of such falls helps explain things. It is also important to call no bird as soon as it is obvious that something untoward has occurred rather than allowing the dog to watch the entire fall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    Also important for handler to get dog out of there as soon as possible, so that flyer is not imprinted in the dog's memory
    As always, great points.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Dufour View Post
    Especially if you train on interrupted setups. Ha !

    ​If interrupted, and the bird is good, then you want the dog to focus on it, as you will need to pick it up later
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    Senior Member MikeBoley's Avatar
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    Not trying to high jack thread but, can the size of the AOF change as the test progresses?
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBoley View Post
    Not trying to high jack thread but, can the size of the AOF change as the test progresses?
    each Judge must arbitrarily define its hypothetical boundaries for himself, and for each bird in that test, so that he can judge whether dogs have remained within his own concept of “area of the ‘fall,’ ’’ as well as how far they have wandered away from “the area’’ and how much cover they have disturbed unnecessarily.
    Nope, its pretty much set in stone....

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