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Thread: is Edward Snowden a dead man?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    your thoughts?
    1st - let's look at his qualifications - according to news reports he never finished HS - had a secret clearance with a subcontractor for NSA - has a GF whose occupation is sliding up & down poles - what's not to like there ?

    I've worked for some big companies - among them a fairly large defense contractor that also builds an airplane or two. I've been around those who attempted to be different to gain notice. Not many!!!! But they are for the most, misfits who want to play to their own drummer, & generally incorrect in their assumptions.

    What it says to me is the surveillance community is too lax in their hiring standards. Anyone who believes there is not a lot of info about themselves readily available is already behind times.

    What it also is saying, is there is a lot of info being accumulated for some purpose which no one seems to understand the purpose. I would be thoroughly disappointed to find out that some sort of monitoring wasn't taking place & the info being put to a useful purpose.

    As for the leaker - hopefully he gets what he deserves & IMO (contrary to most on this thread) it would not be a hero button .
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    The hero or traitor debate has several points to it. Snowden is not "officially" a whistleblower, because he did not complain to superiors about the issue prior to his revelations. That is one of the requirements for protection under the whistleblower law(s).

    So, since he revealed "classified" information, he is "officially" culpable to breaking the law, and not protected by the whistleblower law(s).

    However, it also raises the question of whether the "classified" information was actually damaging to the US. Snowden hasn't, so far, I don't believe, revealed technical info that other countries (including hack-happy China) don't already suspect or know. He simply revealed that the "process" of what the govt is doing. Since his revelations, the govt itself has declassified the info. So, maybe the info wasn't so much a matter of external national security, as it was to keep the natives from grabbing their pitchforks?

    China may very well be giving Snowden aid and assistance, since they benefit from his disclosure from a PR standpoint. OTOH, the Chinese could also use the techy info that he is privy to; and I'm guessing that they would not be averse to extracting such info from him in less-than-polite fashion. He chose to go to Hong Kong, which is close to mainland China. Weren't there other countries he could have chosen?

    If Snowden were tried for treason by a jury of his peers, would he be convicted? That might be a reason for him to surrender himself for a jury trial, which might be a better option than taking his chances with Chinese or ME interrogators.

    Then one might also ask, if Snowden was actually some kind of "plant", cultivated by some country who would like to upset the US's plans for technology monitoring that might result in uncovering the hacking/spying on the US by its enemies. Could Snowden have been "used" in this way due to his youth and idealism?

    Lots of interesting questions.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    ....Then one might also ask, if Snowden was actually some kind of "plant",.......
    .........Could Snowden have been "used" in this way due to his youth and idealism?.........

    Lots of interesting questions.
    he could even have been planted by the Obama Staff as a diversion.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  4. #14
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helencalif View Post
    The Guardian says there is more to be revealed by Snowden. I hope he lives long enough.
    one odd thing is that guardian reporter says he was working with Snowden longer than Snowden had been working for the security company.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    1st - let's look at his qualifications - according to news reports he never finished HS - had a secret clearance with a subcontractor for NSA - has a GF whose occupation is sliding up & down poles - what's not to like there ?

    I've worked for some big companies - among them a fairly large defense contractor that also builds an airplane or two. I've been around those who attempted to be different to gain notice. Not many!!!! But they are for the most, misfits who want to play to their own drummer, & generally incorrect in their assumptions.

    What it says to me is the surveillance community is too lax in their hiring standards. Anyone who believes there is not a lot of info about themselves readily available is already behind times.

    What it also is saying, is there is a lot of info being accumulated for some purpose which no one seems to understand the purpose. I would be thoroughly disappointed to find out that some sort of monitoring wasn't taking place & the info being put to a useful purpose.

    As for the leaker - hopefully he gets what he deserves & IMO (contrary to most on this thread) it would not be a hero button .
    Well I see the smear campaign has started in the Main Stream Media with this guy, and you are buying it. Didn't graduate high school, yes. But, he got his GED and worked his way up through the military and into the CIA. Then got a job with a private contractor. He dates a girl that is hired by an acrobatic group. Not exactly a stripper, and she graduated from Maryland college of the arts. But if you want to keep using the Government talking points that he is a high school dropout and dates a stripper, then I support your freedom to be ignorant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mudminnow View Post
    Well I see the smear campaign has started in the Main Stream Media with this guy, and you are buying it. Didn't graduate high school, yes. But, he got his GED and worked his way up through the military and into the CIA. Then got a job with a private contractor. He dates a girl that is hired by an acrobatic group. Not exactly a stripper, and she graduated from Maryland college of the arts. But if you want to keep using the Government talking points that he is a high school dropout and dates a stripper, then I support your freedom to be ignorant.
    I don't know what you do for a living, but I know what I did. The guys resume has red flags on it just from what the MSM has reported. You sound like you want a job in BHO's administration. & your posts would probably get you an interview.

    Thinking differently than a self professed libertartian certainly does not make one ignorant - but it does make them open minded .
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  7. #17
    Senior Member helencalif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    1st - let's look at his qualifications - according to news reports he never finished HS - had a secret clearance with a subcontractor for NSA -As for the leaker - hopefully he gets what he deserves & IMO (contrary to most on this thread) it would not be a hero button .
    Marvin,

    Reports say he also worked for the CIA before getting the "Technical Analyst" job for the NSA subcontractor. We don't yet know what his clearance status was nor how he got the classified documents about the data mining of telephones or how he became knowledgeable about Prism. I agree with Brit Hume. How was he able to obtain highly classified documents in the position he held?

    We don't yet know what the NSA subcontractor firm was hired to do by NSA or what Snowden's job there as "Technical Analyst" was. True, he never finished high school, but it has been reported he was a computer expert of some sort.

    In The Guardian interview he said he could sit at his job and had access to anyone's email. All he needed was an email address to snoop and collect. If this is true, there is a lot for us to worry about. So far, I see him as a whistleblower, not a traitor. I think other countries know more about what the U.S. is doing than our Congress or our citizens.

    Google and other internet providers are saying they did not allow NSA access and that they never heard of Prism., If this is true, NSA is conducting Prism on their own. Remember: NSA is not building that multi-billion dollar data center in Utah for nothing.

    Getting a bit paranoid about the government,
    Helen

    Helen

  8. #18
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    Edward Snowden is a diversion.

    FOCUS on the real problem.............
    Stan b & Elvis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    I don't know what you do for a living, but I know what I did. The guys resume has red flags on it just from what the MSM has reported. You sound like you want a job in BHO's administration. & your posts would probably get you an interview.

    Thinking differently than a self professed libertartian certainly does not make one ignorant - but it does make them open minded .
    The last thing I want is a job in BHO's administration, and the last thing they would do is give me an interview. I am just going to stick with teeth.

    I am aware at what looks like red flags, but I don't trust them. Looking backwards it is easy to say something looks wrong and connect those dots and make connections that were never there. That is what is so scary about PRISM. Say you get charged with some crime. They have the ability to look at everything you have ever typed or said to make a case for the crime even if you are innocent.

    Just be careful with all the info that will come out about this guy. They will try to sacrifice this kid on the altar of State worship that runs throughout the Dems and Repubs. Lies and half truths will be spread about him everywhere

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by helencalif View Post
    So far, I see him as a whistleblower, not a traitor.

    Getting a bit paranoid about the government,
    Helen

    Helen
    I've had many clearances - I worked on the Bomarc program in it's infancy - Minuteman - Awacs - my last clearance, though I was a US citizen & a veteran took about 6 months, while a Philippine national received his in 2 months - when we did the F-22 I was asked to vouch for a guy who lived down the street from me - I told the interviewer that the guy sounded like he read the Daily Worker for his main source of news - the guy still got his clearance ????

    By definition he is not a whistleblower - he would have gone to his superiors or someone who voted against NSA had he been that - that he chose to go to the Guardian rather than a Washington paper says a lot, at least to me.

    I have always challenged misplaced authority - those in charge overstepping their bounds is not a new phenomena - it happens all the time when folks fail to do their research.


    I get really bent by those who attempt to label someone on this forum as a R or D, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity disciple. It shows they are fairly new to the political game & definitely short of knowledge. I see most here as folks who through there life's experiences have developed a working knowledge of how our system operates , some did miss a clue or two, but generally we do want what's best for our country. Getting it is another subject .
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