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Thread: 2013 National Amateur Retriever Championship Coverage

  1. #121
    Senior Member Purpledawg's Avatar
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    Is there a list of key bird skills to be a finalist?

  2. #122
    Senior Member John Lash's Avatar
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    I don't know if there's a list, but if you're a finalist your dog certainly has some key bird skills.
    John Lash

    "If you run Field Trials, you learn to swallow your disappointment quickly."

    "Field trials are not a game for good dogs. They're for great dogs with great training." E. Graham

  3. #123
    Senior Member JKOttman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Main View Post
    Tim is talking about interrupted marks, here where a double is thrown, but a blind is run 1st. I think he is correct. They have done singles with a blind before, but not a double that I am aware.
    In the combined first and second series you picked up the marks and THEN ran the blind. In the combined third and fourth. They shot the marks, you did the blind and THEN picked up the marks.
    Josie Ottman

    "Life is always a rich and steady time when you are waiting for something to happen or to hatch," E.B. White, Charlotte's Web

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  4. #124
    Senior Member byounglove's Avatar
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    Default Finalist skills

    Quote Originally Posted by John Lash View Post
    I don't know if there's a list, but if you're a finalist your dog certainly has some key bird skills.
    Very well said, John!!

  5. #125
    Senior Member Cowtown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granddaddy View Post
    Of course you'd use a ridiculous example of a JH test to prove a point while ignoring the essence of what I said. A knowledgeable judge on tough grounds can setup a test where only the lucky survive versus the skilled. It is the judge's job to test the dogs and have the skilled survive. This is far from "penciling out dogs". Yes, the tests do in fact separate the dogs & have provided a winner every year the nat'ls have been held but it doesn't mean that a judge shouldn't judge. There is much more to judging than just setting up a test & fold the page when a dog is picked up. And I'm quite aware of what a national holds..........
    \

    There's a reason PGA tourneys aren't held at putt putt. You're not understanding my point either, which is illustrated perfectly with the JH example.

    Are you saying the only dogs passing this test are lucky?
    Last edited by Cowtown; 06-19-2013 at 08:46 AM.

  6. #126
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    Non judgmental includes "best job of the day"? It's true I've seen very little disparaging comments, but maybe some extra enthusiasm for some? Also a lot of holes. I understand the techno problems causing delays, but how do they skip over reports? I am enjoying the blog, just wish I could keep up a little better.
    Carol,
    Owned and handled by Cruisin' with Indiana Jones, JH
    Alternate Handler: Westwind Buffalo Soldier
    Apprentice Handler: Snake River Medicine Man, JH
    http://newhoperetrievers.com

  7. #127
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    If there is anyplace more spectacular I have not been there. These brave people have given retriever junkies a view of summertime retriever paradise, the landowners will undoubtedly have many new friends, thanks to all of them for giving us a chance to see and compete on such wonderful grounds. The pond at Spangler's is equally spectacular, I will take more pictures tomorrow.
    And Randy dug them himself. The area is pretty unique.
    Never trust a dog to watch your food!

  8. #128
    Senior Member AmiableLabs's Avatar
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    Fifth series, second day, finishing up.

    Stronger breeze left to right seems to have made the left flyer work generally better, and the right retired generally worse. Also possible handlers have concentrated so hard in preparation on bringing the left bird home, they forgot the formidability of the long retired.

    The long retired is 310 yards, thrown up the side of a hill in heavy cover. You need a strong dog with tons of desire just to be willing to do it after hunting for two flyers in a hot sun.

    The test is still a ball buster.
    Kevin Walker

    Drive is the manifestation of Desire, and measured in Style.
    Thank you judges who score Style, you are preserving Desire!

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtown View Post
    \

    There's a reason PGA tourneys aren't held at putt putt. You're not understanding my point either, which is illustrated perfectly with the JH example.

    Are you saying the only dogs passing this test are lucky?
    Failed again with your putt-putt example, because again there is much difference between a putt-putt course and a full length championship golf course. But let's stick to dogs and setups. I fully understand your over-simplified examples but they just aren't representative of the intent of the discussion. My response to both of your examples is that it is not a choice between easy on one hand and so difficult on the other that only a few dogs complete the test. With AA setups, they are so much more difficult than a JH test that it makes your example foolish. Surely you will grant that there is a lot of ground between a JH setup and an extreme AA setup that causes the dogs to consistently eliminate themselves. The best tests are those than take advantage of the terrain & other conditions yet are doable by a skilled dog on his game. When dogs eliminate themselves consistently, there is usually something about the test the failing dogs don't see. It might be unfair to dogs early or late due to lighting conditions, so the luck of the draw determines those successful. It might be a bird that is too long for conditions where only dogs that run straight for a long distance get there, as opposed to using marking skills. It might be a bird placement that will only rewards dogs that cheat downwind. It might be a bird placement that is not hard to find except that it just requires a dog to stay in the water for an extended distance & he'll eventually stumble upon the bird. I would advocate for tests that do test the marking skills of the dogs, yet be a test that is fair in terms of lighting for the dogs that run whether early or late or during mid-day, that aren't so long that the dogs can't see the bird in the air, birds that don't trick the dogs by optical illusions and setups that aren't so tight as to have over-lapping AOFs, etc.

    I'm not saying this as related to the current nat'l tests. I'm not there and cannot judge the setups but I don't think that any judge should just setup a test so difficult that only the lucky survive & so just sit back and fold pages or (to address you ridiculous example) so easy that the entire field is successful. The skilled judge sets up difficult tests that provide separation between the dogs so that clear-cut callbacks can be made & eventually pick a winner. Sure a limited number of dogs will pick up on a difficult test, some more will have extended hunts on a bird or two, but some will drill the test. And from the separation gained from a difficult yet fair test, the skilled judge will JUDGE the dogs to make his callbacks. No problem to document those dogs that picked up, but the judge must discern good work from poor work in difficult but good, fair setups.

    My whole point to comment were the posts by some that advocate for tests where dogs eliminate themselves, making the erroneous equivocation that to drop dogs otherwise is to pencil them out - to which I strong disagree.
    Last edited by Granddaddy; 06-19-2013 at 12:46 PM.
    David Didier, GA

  10. #130
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Looks like dog 87 nailed it! Go Classy Girl and Johnny!

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