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Thread: RAC Meeting - Rule changes? Proposed rules?

  1. #21
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    The change in the way that the Retriever Advisory Committee is formed and maintained is the single most dynamic thing that has happened in retriever field trials in my 40 year tenure and I applaud Doug Ljungren for his reformation efforts and plan.
    Wow. I am shocked to hear that--a very strong statement. Would you mind elaborating?

    As I am not a 'player', my knowledge of the politics and such at the upper echelon is limited. My take on it was that it was a snoozer: essentially changing the RAC from a few bigwigs who serve forever to another (or possibly even the same) bunch of bigwigs by way of the extreme requirements. Obviously I am wrong but I would love to understand a little more of your perspective, if you have the time.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Doug Main's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    The change in the way that the Retriever Advisory Committee is formed and maintained is the single most dynamic thing that has happened in retriever field trials in my 40 year tenure and I applaud Doug Ljungren for his reformation efforts and plan.
    No kidding, that is huge step forward!

  3. #23
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    They had better be a big wig they have some big shoes to fill.......... BTW to have any credibility at the AKC MEMBER Mtg I would like to suggest that this person be additionally required to be a long time member of a member club

    When EF Hutton speaks regards
    john
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  4. #24
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    They had better be a big wig they have some big shoes to fill.......... BTW to have any credibility at the AKC MEMBER Mtg I would like to suggest that this person be additionally required to be a long time member of a member club

    When EF Hutton speaks regards
    john
    E. F. Hutton has been insignificant to non existent since a check kiting and fraud scandal in the mid 1980s. New blood and ideas from currently active people with length of term limits is a monumental change for the better for the Retriever Advisory Committee.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOM View Post
    Tammy,

    The problem is, who decides what the "exceptions" are? That could be come political - it's just like determining who a Pro is or is not...I still have not seen enough to convince me that it is a problem that needs a solution...I know on this circuit I do not see it as an issue...

    Lainee
    Somehow, I do not see you as being able to recognize the problem if it slapped you alongside the head - you are not a skeptic . It is there, abused by a few, but could be easily taken care of if the qualifications of those anointed as cream of the ruling class were properly vetted.

    Quote Originally Posted by TBell View Post
    From what I am hearing, the weekend warriors who put on a few trials a year are getting more than a little weary of the large number of handlers running multiple dogs, pro or am. It is very stressful for field trial committees, judges, and workers (mostly all Amateurs) when there are 80-100 Opens and 80 dog Ams.

    The number of willing Amateur workers and judges are getting smaller each year, so making it optional for a club to limit dogs per handler is something which needs to be discussed. If it is not a problem in your region, then don't implement the option.
    Having worked both, from small to large entries, I would not be as willing today to don my workers clothes or have our boys throw birds for what I perceive today as an unappreciative group of contestants.

    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    the problem is not with the amateur....the perceived problem is with a few individuals that dont seem to do much more than show up and run their dogs, or bring a representative or family member to work a trial..its a microcosm of what is going on in our country right now...one one extreme you have the blueblood wealthy Wall St. crowd, and on the other extreme the group that wants all things equal....and then you have the middle that actually does the majority of the work and makes the country/game work...basically class warfare retriever style
    This really hasn't changed - what has changed is the large numbers allowing a worker in the field to get really unhappy. One of the local clubs used to have a large number of volunteers who only hunted to put on their trial. As they were not appreciated, they slowly found other things to do that weekend .

    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    There is very little support from the people here about limiting amateur entries, most everyone agrees that would not be a healthy thing for our sport and that in most instances delays can be minimized by using common sense and not holding handlers at the open when they are needed at the amateur. I doubt if that proposal will ever make it to a vote.

    The change in the way that the Retriever Advisory Committee is formed and maintained is the single most dynamic thing that has happened in retriever field trials in my 40 year tenure and I applaud Doug Ljungren for his reformation efforts and plan.
    I might diagree with you on this premise - the folks at this trial are part of the ruling class - they enjoy their status & do not want it disturbed. I believe it should be a club option. This is not the NFL .

    As for Doug Ljundgren, he was a customer of our boarding kennel in the 80's. Had 3 dogs, GWP all girls - one or two of them were National Champions, they were really nice dogs.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Wade's Avatar
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    Boy Marv, you sure are full of piss and vinegar tonight, aren't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Somehow, I do not see you as being able to recognize the problem if it slapped you alongside the head - you are not a skeptic . It is there, abused by a few, but could be easily taken care of if the qualifications of those anointed as cream of the ruling class were properly vetted.



    Having worked both, from small to large entries, I would not be as willing today to don my workers clothes or have our boys throw birds for what I perceive today as an unappreciative group of contestants.



    This really hasn't changed - what has changed is the large numbers allowing a worker in the field to get really unhappy. One of the local clubs used to have a large number of volunteers who only hunted to put on their trial. As they were not appreciated, they slowly found other things to do that weekend .



    I might diagree with you on this premise - the folks at this trial are part of the ruling class - they enjoy their status & do not want it disturbed. I believe it should be a club option. This is not the NFL .

    As for Doug Ljundgren, he was a customer of our boarding kennel in the 80's. Had 3 dogs, GWP all girls - one or two of them were National Champions, they were really nice dogs.
    I hate rude behavior in a man, won't tolerate it. Captain Woodrow Call

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    E. F. Hutton has been insignificant to non existent since a check kiting and fraud scandal in the mid 1980s. New blood and ideas from currently active people with length of term limits is a monumental change for the better for the Retriever Advisory Committee.

    8 years is not even enough time at the AKC to learn the people you need to know to get things done first name......

    As I said earlier what is needed at the RAC is stature, and sorry to say "New blood" even if they are a member of a member club has just not been around long enough to have any at the AKC.



    Good luck to you and Holland

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  8. #28
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    8 years is not even enough time at the AKC to learn the people you need to know to get things done first name......

    As I said earlier what is needed at the RAC is stature, and sorry to say "New blood" even if they are a member of a member club has just not been around long enough to have any at the AKC.



    Good luck to you and Holland

    john
    Thank you, he and I are enjoying the progression and hope it lasts for 5 more series. I'll not debate the RAC here because it might demean the accomishments of some current and past members. Stature with the conformation people is meaningless as evidenced by some not so recent decisions by the BOD, and we do still have some clout due to a new appointee to the RAC who knows the right people.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOM View Post
    Fine....I'll play...these are the immediate questions that popped up in my head when I read the blog:

    1) Judging points...is anyone actually keeping track of points past 8? And are we talking just Championship points?
    2) Define "in the sport" - specifically FTs? What about the person who takes a few off in between dogs/family obligations? Who is keeping track of years in the sport? What makes up a year?
    3) Well if it was easy, everyone would have a FC/AFC...does title dog include one that the owner never put a hand over??
    4) So running a dog once a year, does that count? Minor stakes?

    And yes I know they are in the process of trying to define the criteria, so maybe they will answer these questions in the process? But i do have to wonder if the qualifications eliminates too many "qualified" people?

    And does the community have a say whether they want a specific person to be their representative??
    1. The AKC keeps track of judging points. While it doesn't "tally" over 8 AA points, the trials are there for you to count yourself.
    2. Since the RAC addresses FTs, it would be years in field trials. You can keep track in EE to a certain date in the past. Paper entries are another matter.
    3. Since they are looking for experience, I would think you would need to be handling your dog.
    4. To me it would be AA stakes.

    They are trying to get peeps with the most experience... I am sure politics has nothing to do with it.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member MikeBoley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    I get kinda pissed off at the mind set of if you can't train the dog to do something or can't beat someone, change the rules to make it, or them, illegal.
    Its happening in more than just FT. Howard you just cant fix stupid
    Last edited by MikeBoley; 06-18-2013 at 10:15 PM. Reason: trying to fix stupid
    'I make my practices real hard because if a player is a quitter, I want him to quit in practice, not in a game.' - Bear Bryant / Alabama

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