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Thread: RAC Meeting - Rule changes? Proposed rules?

  1. #41
    Senior Member helencalif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Carrion View Post
    Proposal 1: A step in the right direction, allowing the return to being able to have an Amatuer without an Open, but if fails to meet the real problem of clubs not having the resources(land.people ...) to hold 2 major stakes. A change that could help clubs would be the option to hold an Amatuer without an Open provided the club holds at least 1 Open in that calander year.Tim
    I am the treasurer for 2 clubs. The Open stake is always larger than the Amateur stake because of the pros. Pros also have dogs entered in the minor stakes (Qualifying and Derby) which they handle. If a club did not have an Open, it would lower the amount of entries in the minor stakes as the pros would not come to the trial with their dogs.

    I will have to go back through my financial statements for trials, but it seems to me that if the clubs did not have an Open stake, they would lose money on that trial. Clubs have to make profits on their events or they will cease to exist. They could probably survive losing money on one trial every other year, tho.

    Are there any other club treasurers on RTF ? Have you put a pencil to this? What do you think about this new proposal the Committee is discussing?

    Helen
    Last edited by helencalif; 06-19-2013 at 11:50 AM.

  2. #42
    Super Moderator FOM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helencalif View Post
    I am the treasurer for 2 clubs. The Open stake is always larger than the Amateur stake because of the pros. Pros also have dogs entered in the minor stakes (Qualifying and Derby) which they handle. If a club did not have an Open, if would lower the amount of entries in the minor stakes as as the pros would not come to the trial with their dogs.

    I will have to go back through my financial statements for trials, but it seems to me that if the clubs did not have an Open stake, they would lose money on that trial. Clubs have to make profits on their events or they will cease to exist.

    Are there any other club treasurers on RTF ? Have you put a pencil to this? What do you think about this new proposal the Committee is discussing?

    Helen
    I think if a club can make ends meet by not having an Open, then good for them, let them have that option...I know we decided to not have a Derby this year for logistical reasons (extremely small club, with limited grounds) and we tossed around the numbers and cutting the Open was NOT an option, we need the Pros to help round out the numbers. I hated cutting the Derby because normally by the time our trial rolls around there is a whole new crop of young dogs ready to break out, but it's life...
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  3. #43
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helencalif View Post
    Are there any other club treasurers on RTF ? Have you put a pencil to this? What do you think about this new proposal the Committee is discussing?
    I am not my club's treasurer but have put a pencil to this. What I worry about is that if there is not an open, the pros will go to the trial with an open and the majority of the dogs that would have been in the Am will also be lost. The majority of dogs in a typical Am around here are run by their owners while the pro runs them in the open. Would these Ams get their dog off the pro's truck for that weekend and run them in an Am or just run where the pro is running? I suspect more will do the latter.

  4. #44
    Senior Member lbbuckler's Avatar
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    It seems to me the two proposals are an attempt for some clubs to reduce competition versus help a club with limited resources.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOM View Post
    Marvin,

    Really? I'm not as stupid as YOU may think...I do realize there are takers in this sport that abuse the rules, there are handlers out there who co-own more dogs than I'll own in a life time, I know there are handlers out there who never lift a finger to put on trial...yet I don't see how a few bad apples should be allowed to hose over the majority of those in the sport who do work their rear ends off...it's attitudes like yours that make me even wonder why I bother, you are pretty good at keeping the newer blood down....all hail Marvin, all knowing, all perfect, I'm so unworthy to have an opinion cause I'm not as wonderful and perfect as him....go pound sand and you can keep you over opinionated condescending attitude to yourself when it comes to your opinion of me and what I do or do not know, what I do or do not give back to the sport...

    Lainee Munhollon

    And FYI, many, many times I've just let your little back handed and rude comments in reference to me go....just figured you had nothing better to do than to make your self feel superior and you really weren't worth the brain damage, but ya know, I'm sick of it...you are nothing but an internet bully...get over your self importance, you are just as insignificant in this sport as I am, but at least I don't go around telling people they are with the hopes of making myself seem important.
    Lainee - a little sensitive today??? Look up the meaning of skeptic! I didn't question your intelligence but by the tone of your posts you are a person who desires to be "in with the group".

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  6. #46
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    The Open All Age stake is the heart and soul of the AKC Retriever field trial event. How do I know this? It says so in the rule book.

    For those who do not know, an Amateur can get an FC ,(and perhaps even have their dog become a DC), and an AFC on their dog and also qualify for both Nationals at Opens. This cannot be done at the Amateur stake........

    When clubs first apply to the AKC for their permission to put on a licensed field trial, the AKC checks them out to see if they have the where with all* to pull it off. In some cases it is detirmined that they did not, and they are not granted said license.... It appears that over time some of the clubs that at one time did, now do not.

    Perhaps some of these clubs, who by their own admission here on the RTF are a little short suited in that regard, should have to re-certify every so often.


    john

    * Read resources... Which includes but not limited to, grounds, expertise within the club, manpower independent of members other local clubs, finances, etc........
    Last edited by john fallon; 06-19-2013 at 09:37 PM.
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  7. #47
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    1. The AKC keeps track of judging points. While it doesn't "tally" over 8 AA points, the trials are there for you to count yourself.
    2. Since the RAC addresses FTs, it would be years in field trials. You can keep track in EE to a certain date in the past. Paper entries are another matter.
    3. Since they are looking for experience, I would think you would need to be handling your dog.
    4. To me it would be AA stakes.

    They are trying to get peeps with the most experience... I am sure politics has nothing to do with it.
    To a certain extent. Their database only goes back to 1998. Anything you judged before that is a mystery unless you kept a record of it (which I didn't).
    Bill Davis

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    To a certain extent. Their database only goes back to 1998. Anything you judged before that is a mystery unless you kept a record of it (which I didn't).
    so here is a serious question..Clint judged two Open's in the prehistoric days(early 70's) when dinosaurs inhabited the earth and we think they are recorded in the Retriever Performance Books...Do those two points add to his total since he is not yet an 8 point judge..I think he has 4 in the modern era, and will judge this fall at the Red River trial in December
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    To a certain extent. Their database only goes back to 1998. Anything you judged before that is a mystery unless you kept a record of it (which I didn't).

    I have every FT News from the days it was published by WAFTC as I was able to procure Bob Wolfe's collection. I am sure there are other collections of the same time frame but very few. Bob had offered it to the RHOF who showed little interest. I can tell you how many times you have judged during the time frame 1965-2009 & what stakes. I also have 2 partials both starting in 64 that cover the 95-09 time frames. If you want that info I'll send it to you.

    When doing the database I recognized things that would have been useful had I started doing them in the beginning. Just listing dog ownership & where those were procured tells a story into itself. Additionally the serial co-owners & the dog salesman say lots about someone's ability to truly call themselves an amateur. Were I to do it over I would also list the top 4 dogs in every assignment someone judged. That would tell a story unto itself.

    While doing the database I got a number of e-mails about certain issues which in itself was a sort of a proof for what I was seeing. On occasion I will still hear from someone wanting to return to the sport about their past records, most are amazed at what I am able to provide. As Tammy says, these things are a time consumer & in the scheme of things sometimes take a back seat to higher priorities.

    I'm heavily involved with our city government as an activist. They made the mistake of tackling me on an issue I was very familiar with & the rest is on the record. I have also ran twice & am running this fall for city council. While I have come just a hair's breadth away from victory so far that has alluded me. But my criticism has forced them to occupy new positions & do some things for the good of the community. It's a lot of fun to know the history of these little towns, much of which can be gleaned from various local sources. As some have found on this forum, I am not a typical politician!!!
    Last edited by Marvin S; 06-19-2013 at 11:15 PM.
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  10. #50
    Senior Member helencalif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helencalif View Post
    Chris Hatch qualifies #2, #3, #4. He probably also has 40 judging points, if they count minor stakes as well as major stakes. I don't know how many trials Chris has judged.
    I just looked up Chris' judging record on the AKC website's Judges Directory. Since Dec 28, 2002, Chris has judged 39 field trial stakes -- major and minor. Since Feb 2004, Don Graves has judged 33 stakes (major and minor). His next judging assignment is the Tacoma Ret Club trial the weekend of Aug. 9-11.

    These guys are too busy training, trialing, and judging. Don is retired, but Chris is still a working man (insurance agent with his own insurance business). They are also active in local clubs (president, board of directors, field trial chairmen). They don't have time to get involved in an RAC. Just ask their wives...

    Helen
    Last edited by helencalif; 06-20-2013 at 12:31 AM.

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