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NAFC!! Is there such an animal. A REAL AMATEUR TRAINED CHAMPION?

17K views 71 replies 40 participants last post by  Golddogs 
#1 ·
I was looking at the new Retriever News Mag. for June 2013. Congrats again to Chad & Traveler.
I was looking at the first winner NFC-AFC Major Vl.
Definition :Amateur- Not Professional

But, the winner was a NFC. Has there ever been a NAFC that was not Pro trained?

Is there a event where there are actual amateur trained dogs for a relevant title.

I have noticed that even in the Hunt test games there are really hardly any amateur trained dogs.

Notice: I am not knocking the pros - the people that have or want to get help with thier dogs.

A lot of the people that I see have at some point either have a pro take on a major part of thier training and take the credit for thier dog being called amateur trained . Is there anyone that has a real amateur trained dog & has reached a major event such as the NAFC?
 
#53 ·
I first met Mr Goodrich in 1974 coincidentally at the NARC in Sacramento when he and Rascal won..we had a Rascal sired dog named Rex along with Judge...Clint went out after the 7th series, Lanse went out after the 9th, as did Judy/Raider, Ken Cory/****, Tom Quinn/Anny, and Mr Crow/Pearl..Dana B/Paint were Finalists along with Gene Corona,Sal Gelardi

Mr Goodrich has always been a classy guy and a non pretentious gentleman in a sport dominated by blowhards and egomaniacs, on top of being a darn good dog trainer and handler of a dog that was arguably the gold standard of marking dogs during his lifetime

Mr Goodrich's inclusion to the RHOF is LONG overdue, I too will vote for him this year
 
#54 ·
Hope Mr Goodrich is nominated and elected soon.
is it true he'd do lining drills down rows of brussel sprout crops?
 
#56 ·
originally posted by elingler
i don't have a dog running the nafc but my dodoes have his hrch uh and is one pass from his mh title has derby jams and we even walked to the line in a am in a ft and wasn't embarrassed at all and he is 100% amateur trained and he is only my second dog i have ever owned. Yeah he might never be a fc or afc but to me it's about the journey.



cool story bro....
**** x2****
 
#59 ·
If you want to nominate an individual to the Retriever Hall of Fame you can do so by googling Retriever News Hall of Fame ballot - you can fill it out and send in. I'm afraid many are under the impression Ray Goodrich has been voted in and this is NOT the case. Please make a difference and fill out a ballot. I like many was unaware who he was. When I asked Judy Aycock about him she gave me permission to quote her and said "it is a travesty he is not in the hall of fame."
Read Lanse's post for all the reasons why and I am sure there are even more. Find the ballot and nominate!!!
 
#63 ·
Mr. Goodrich is indeed wonderful person and has contributed so much to the game. I first met him at a trial just a few years ago and was taken back because he thanked me for my gunning that day and we sat and talked, ( I listened ) as he told about his beginning in the sport. It would be a travesty indeed if he doesn't receive his placement in the RHOF in his lifetime. Ray I believe is more than 91 yrs old.
 
#64 · (Edited)
Slider is an awesome talented dog and Lauren Hays does a great job communicating with him. Not taking anything away from that team at all but make no mistake, she gets extensive help and tutoring from one of the best pros around. I'm sure she would acknowledge that. Nothing wrong with that. It's the smart thing to do.

This is what we're talking about. When you have the opportunity to run the pro's setups ... in fact, be there to watch and ask questions when they are setting it up... that is professional help.

When you have the opportunity to sit in the field throwing birds for 20 dogs and watch what they do ... that is professional help.

When you get to know the dog's individual personalities and see how the pro handles each different dog accordingly as they run, that is professional help.

When you are shagging dogs off the truck and watch the pro from the line ... the individual touch for each particular dog ... that is professional help.

When it's your turn to run and the pro standing behind you says,"why in the hell did you do THAT?" ... that is professional help.

That is the help that most serious amateurs seek out. And even though, in many cases, no pro has ever dropped his hand over the dog at the mat, it is certainly not accurate to say their dog is "completely amateur trained without the help of a pro".

There are some, but very few.

JS
 
#65 ·
As I posted previously this completely amateur trained dog amuses me. Usually the question arrises from those who are not familiar with the "field trial culture" and as JS pointed out what's the difference between having a pro put a hand in front of a dog or on a daily basis throwing for the pro, then running your own dog, done quite often. I train with a group of all amateurs and we struggle weekly to compete in the all age game. We have had a smattering of FC and/or AFCs over the years in our various groups. Most have not got the 5 win plus two points to qualify on a yearly basis. We have in the group those just trying to get the necessary points to get a title. I have not used a pro since the mid 1990s and it probably shows although we have had "completely amateur" trained FC and/or AFCs among us in the past ten years.
Among the group are working stiffs and retired folks. We have had our share of Derby List dogs and young QAA along with plenty of Master Hunters, non professionally trained. To just qualify for the big dance is a major accomplishment in itself. To be a finalist with the talent out there is a greater then major accomplishment. I think anyone who puts a AFC on a dog or qualifies it for the National Amat. , whoever trains the dog should be commended. This field trial game of today ain't your daddy's game, use the resources you have, ask yourself are you having fun? The rest just don't matter!
 
#68 ·
I judged the limited open on the National Grounds 2013 about a month before the National Amat. How on Earth can anyone duplicate those grounds! Even Used "Laura's stick pond " as it iscalled for our last series water marks. Several very prominent pros asked me if I had ever trained on grounds such as this property. I said no and they said neither had they! Forget about if a Pro trains your dog, what about using National caliber ground to train on? In your Daddy's field trial National era Bong Recreational grounds were the Benchmark for national caliber grounds. I was there when River Oaks Rascal won the National Amateur in I think 1977 and two more were held before then. Now Bong is a nice place and I train there about once a week. It is excellent Hunt Test grounds but, it is not National Field Trial caliber by any stretch of the imagination!
 
#69 ·
Earl : did you ever see the field trial grounds in Jackson Hole Wyoming held there in 1975, those were pretty special too
 
#71 ·
At the National Amateur are we not trying to find the best of the best... That is to say the best retriever in the country qualified and entered that week, the only stipulation being that it be handled by someone who's Amateur status falls under that years FT committee's interpretation of the rules as to them being one.

All the rest of the blather, like who trained the dog, is a non sequitur !!!

john
 
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