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Thread: NAFC!! Is there such an animal. A REAL AMATEUR TRAINED CHAMPION?

  1. #21
    Senior Member rboudet's Avatar
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    Jason Flemming #42 AFC Lucky if He Makes It
    Pretty sure Jason did all the training with Lucky

  2. #22
    Senior Member SjSmith's Avatar
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    Being new to this and not knowing much about it, I would still have to say that an NAFC is an NAFC no matter how it got there.
    It appears to take a lot more, to attain that status, than just having some or a lot of professional training.
    Doesn't everyone get SOME professional help in one way or another?

  3. #23
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleHaul View Post
    Amateurs already compete in the Am. I am not sure how you would do your 'real amateur' stake. Are you a real amateur if you are retired? Married to a billionaire? A trustafarian? What if you work but only work 40 hours a week? Will there be separate stake for those of us who work 80 and above per week so we don't have to compete with the folks that can train after work?
    Exactly! I really don't understand what the OP's question is or what point he is making. If he is just wondering if ever in the history of the Amateur National a completely amateur trained dog has won, Bon answered that affirmatively. If he's trying to show that it is a rare event, I believe that is true, and I have great respect for those amateurs such as Howard, Chris and Bill Petrovich who train smart, hard and regularly to a very high level. I know there are probably quite a few that I haven't mentions, I just know those guys off the top of my head as they are western dogs that I occasionally run against.

    The reality of our sport is that in order to succeed, not only do you and your dog need to beat every other well trained super dog, you also need to consistently perform well on the very hard marking test and blinds that judges set up on a regular basis. The time commitment, resources and sacrifices necessary to do this are incredible. Some people have the dog, training knowledge and land to do this all by themselves, some are even able to do it while working a regular job, but most need professional help. For those that really catch the bug-obsession, retirement is where experience, training knowledge, good dogs, ability to travel, time and money all coincide to perhaps allow a 100% amateur success.

    John

  4. #24
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SjSmith View Post
    Being new to this and not knowing much about it, I would still have to say that an NAFC is an NAFC no matter how it got there.
    It appears to take a lot more, to attain that status, than just having some or a lot of professional training.
    Doesn't everyone get SOME professional help in one way or another?
    No. I know lots of people who did it ALL BY THEMSELVES!! They just naturally knew it all from the start.

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

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  5. #25
    Senior Member SjSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    No. I know lots of people who did it ALL BY THEMSELVES!! They just naturally knew it all from the start.

    JS
    Indeed. Know some of those myself.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Russ's Avatar
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    I certainly support those that use pros. We use a pro for our young dog work.

    All of Arnie & Linda Erwin's dogs are 100% amateur trained including Suncrest Wild Oats, a 2011 NAFC finalist.

  7. #27
    Senior Member helencalif's Avatar
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    I just watched Jerry Patopea's interview on the retriever news blog regarding the 5th series. A difficult test and more difficult for others depending on the time of day they ran and what the condition changes were when they ran. Per Jerry... wind changes, lighting changes (poor visibility for the dogs who ran in the evening, great for the dogs who ran this morning. Sounds like "the normal" for a field trial, except the 5th series sounds like it is a lot tougher than something faced at a weekend trial.

    Because of the heat, humidity, and a lot of hills, I am feeling for the older dogs at this trial who would probably run the 5th series better under different conditions.
    EdA mentioned how out of gas his dog was... I think a relatively younger dog as compared to the 8, 9, and 10 year olds who are running uphill marks in the heat and humidity. Beautiful scenery, but a tough-tough test. A lot of really good dogs have been picked up or have handled.

    It will be interesting to find out at the end of the 5th how many are still in it.
    Helen

  8. #28
    Senior Member SjSmith's Avatar
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    I thought I was on the wrong thread for a second.

  9. #29
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helencalif View Post
    I just watched Jerry Patopea's interview on the retriever news blog regarding the 5th series. A difficult test and more difficult for others depending on the time of day they ran and what the condition changes were when they ran. Per Jerry... wind changes, lighting changes (poor visibility for the dogs who ran in the evening, great for the dogs who ran this morning. Sounds like "the normal" for a field trial, except the 5th series sounds like it is a lot tougher than something faced at a weekend trial.

    Because of the heat, humidity, and a lot of hills, I am feeling for the older dogs at this trial who would probably run the 5th series better under different conditions.
    EdA mentioned how out of gas his dog was... I think a relatively younger dog as compared to the 8, 9, and 10 year olds who are running uphill marks in the heat and humidity. Beautiful scenery, but a tough-tough test. A lot of really good dogs have been picked up or have handled.

    It will be interesting to find out at the end of the 5th how many are still in it.
    Helen
    Good points... Normally old dogs fare well in nationals because they handle the stress well and don't get too up... But this test sounds like it may be too much for most older dogs, even if they are in good shape. (if they are running in the heat of the day)
    Bill Davis

  10. #30
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    From its beginning the Amateur stake was run for the most part, by well to do owners taking their pro trained dogs and competing with their piers, It was then, and still is primarily about the handler's ability to handle a well trained dog . Actually even before they competed against just their piers, some prevailed http://caninechronicle.com/current-a...he-early-days/.... Why do we now want to draw a distinction, singling out an isolated few who do not use a pro trained dog for some special recognition.

    "If you cant beat them change the rules" regards.

    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 06-19-2013 at 02:46 PM.
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

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