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Aggression during FF

12K views 70 replies 26 participants last post by  steve schreiner 
#1 ·
How does one deal with aggression during ff? My buddy has a one that turns into a land shark!! You put him up the table and as soon as touch his ear to his collar, the theme music to jaws starts playing. Apply a little pressure and watch out!!

You can lead him around by his collar and he is fine, you can even rub his ears while holding his collar and he is ok.
 
#6 ·
More common then people want to admit. Lots of pros wash those dogs immediately.
I have the scars to prove what it takes to win against those dogs, but those fight instead of flight dogs way of refusal is no different then the dog with flight tendencies. Use the table that's what its for.
 
#8 ·
Use the lip curl method to force fetch the dog. With the dog on a table and using a regular dog collar clipped to a snap swivel to prevent excessive movement have a dummy in one hand, say fetch, and using your other hand placed just behind its nose on top of it, apply pressure with your thumb on one side and your fingers on the other pry its mouth open by squeezing your fingers together just behind the top canine teeth. This will force the dogs mouth to open. When it does insert the dummy into its mouth and repeat the word hold while holding the dog with your hand just under its bottom jaw. Now put one hand on the dummy, say drop and remove the dummy. If the dog will not release the dummy, roll the dummy and push it towards the rear of its mouth, repeating the word drop. Usually after several sessions of this the dog will open its mouth willfully before you have to apply the lip curl pressure. Some others will take more time. Before moving on to another form of pressure make sure hold drop is going good after you get it to grab the dummy. I like the dog to back its head away when I say drop and give up the dummy. Personally I do not like to ear pinch. I go to the electric collar using low levels to teach the dog to open its mouth when I say fetch. Its kinda tricky to hold a dummy and electric collar in one hand and open its mouth using the lip curl method. But I have forced many dogs this way without ear pinching. I feel its much less traumatic on the dog and goes smoother. You can then advance to the next level and get off the table. I hope this is explained well enough for everyone to understand as I know this is very complicated.
 
#10 ·
I've had my share of aggressive dogs during FF (more so goldens) and their no fun. I use a table with an overhead tethering system. When I get a dog that is aggressive on the ear pinch I move to the toe hitch, it works great and your hands are away from the dogs face. The pressure situation is the same other than the discomfort is on the toes. After the dog figures out how to comply and is understanding, I transition back to the ear pinch usually with no problems. You can YouTube the "toe hitch method" Good Luck;)
 
#12 ·
This is called a break through...more common to be done by Goldens. Two Key things. 1)Your friend needs to tie off the dogs head so it can't bite him. If you don't have a force fetch table. You can tie the dog off on a fence pole and continue FF. 2) Don't give up, don't let the dog win. COMPLETE FF!!!!!!!!!
When you complete FF this will be a very giving dog and only want to please you.
 
#13 ·
Was a couple years back I ran into a similar situation with- a Yella' dog, kinda' ironic ;) He bit me.

First things first, someone mentioned that some pros wash out aggressive dogs- keep this in mind it was a good post.
Also see post #10.

Didn't have to go to the Toe Hitch but it is an option. Found a couple things that were of my own errors- I was moving entirely too fast for the dog I was working with , so keep that in mind as something to consider.
Secondly-
Thot it might be a good idea to establish to the dog just exactly whos' the Alpha 'round here, (and who you can have some fun with too), since the dog had absolutely no leadership for quite some time prior to training.

3rd-
There's no big rush, so take your time. Each dog is different on the ears, so the amount of pressure you exihibit on one that changes behavior, doesn't mean that sameamount of pressure will be applicable for the next dog.

Having control over the dogs' head is a MUST, no matter how you go about achieving it, and NO matter if the dog doesn't appear to be aggressive at the moment ,don't worry- as soon as there's pressure it changes.

Guess by now, your buddys' dog knows what's coming, so more than likely when you put your hand up there he clicks in the "mode".
Use a wide flat collar so you'll have better control over the dogs' head, along with a possible overhead rig.

Don't cave in to the aggressiveness, and don't cave in to a Hollywood actress. However in terms of aggressiveness, would say one needs to know when it simply isn't do-able.
Helps if the dog knows that FETCH means open your mouth and take an object before you even get on the table.
 
#14 ·
I use the toe hitch for agressive dogs on the ff table with a restraining cable. Having said that the only dog to bite me was a very gentile dog (HR Huck). We were doing walking fetch with the toe hitch. At the tug he reached over and bit me on the thigh. Nothing serious. I was more upset over the holes in the jeans than in me. I still tease the owner about this.

I have had a number of close calls and some were aggressive to the point that I put on leather gloves. A few times I have used a cable on the ground (similar to the ff table cable but only a foot or so off the ground) which keeps the dogs from getting to you on walking ff.

Hope this helps.
 
#16 ·
This is basically what I do. Toe hitch and a suspended barrel works wonders on aggressive.
 
#15 ·
I think it might be a good idea to get a pro involved. If the guy is not experienced, i can't seem him utilizing the advice offered here. Go see Sharon, and think about leaving the pup there for as long as it takes.
 
#28 ·
I had no idea a clicker could cause such an issue.

I'm with Sharon regards-
 
#29 ·
Just to clarify a bit, since one post above was edited...
As anyone who knows me can attest, I have never, ever claimed to be anything other than what I am...a gun dog trainer. I run the occasional hunt test with my own dogs for fun, but I'm not obsessed with chasing ribbons or titles, because I'm far too busy training gun dogs and their owners on weekends, and that's where my interest and talent is best utilized. It doesn't mean I can't train or be competitive in those venues....it just means I don't want to be. :) And all of that has little or nothing to do with FF, which, along with problem dogs, is my specialty. I would much rather help an owner solve an issue and then see them have success running their own dog in whatever venue they want.
 
#35 ·
I would love to see what the definition of "aggression" is here. It sounds to me that the dog is just using an out mechanism that all dogs will to escape pressure. I think that a mountain is being made out of a molehill here and personally love to FF a dog like this because all you have to do is channel that bite to the bumper and the dog normally picks things up really fast. I do agree that if you lack the know how that you should send your dog to a pro but I don't believe this is a dominance or aggression issue, just a different response than some have seen in the handful of dogs that they have FF. Just my opinion.
 
#36 ·
I would love to see what the definition of "aggression" is here. It sounds to me that the dog is just using an out mechanism that all dogs will to escape pressure. I think that a mountain is being made out of a molehill here and personally love to FF a dog like this because all you have to do is channel that bite to the bumper and the dog normally picks things up really fast. I do agree that if you lack the know how that you should send your dog to a pro but I don't believe this is a dominance or aggression issue, just a different response than some have seen in the handful of dogs that they have FF. Just my opinion.

I agree it is not a dominance issue...I believe it is just a response to the pressure..I'll bite you because it hurts..( aggression). The dog is telling the handler don't do that again...Since the dog can't flight it only has one way to go and that is to fight, grab what ever is putting that pressure on them ....Some dogs are just more passive and stand there and yell ...As stated on here before ,you can put pressure on but you can't take it back off...This is why I recommend getting help..It takes experience to deal with a dog that has resorted to that kind of response to pressure....and not get bitten ...yet get the dog through the process...Steve S
 
#37 ·
While I wouldn't choose to be in the OP's shoes *on purpose*, if it should happen to me I would love the opportunity to go see Sharon and learn a thing or two about FF.
 
#42 ·
My 2 cents (fwiw) to y'all.
'How does one deal with aggression during 'anything' "?...This dog is just a pup! I wouldn't attempt to digress on any technique or corrective measure in the programme of FF' that would be foolish of me and perhaps foolish for the handler/trainer/owner?..Sounds like this one (like many 'puppies' in the pack) while mum looks after them all are a the sharpest knife in the box?
Aggression (sometimes perceived as bite/snarl/bark/growl/lip curl etc) Is not actually aggression ?...More questions than answers?- Yup!..I also say take the dog to 'some-one' that say's they can sort it through your programme?..But please let us know how they do?
http://www.polmaisegundogs.co.uk/behaviour-training.html
 
#49 ·
Yep...but it all worked out. The dog was calmed down, aggression diffused, and things progressed nicely. However, I made a mistake when correcting the biting...one I didn't even realize until someone mentioned, as I was standing there talking, that I had blood dripping out of the thumb of my glove. Didn't get my thumb tucked all the way in as I was explaining to the dog that if it wanted to bite my hand, it was welcome to, but there would be a consequence to that action. Totally my fault, not the dog's. And the scar still reminds me to tuck in my thumb! :wink:
Was it a dog off your truck or a dog you were not familiar with?

Pete
 
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