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Thread: Alright you pesky new kids. Wanna know why The RTF is COOL? Wanna Know Why We Are Fam

  1. #31
    Senior Member John Kelder's Avatar
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    If I can be forgiven ( I was ) , anyone can ... Moderators have hearts too regards........................
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  2. #32
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    The meaning of Amnesty isn't ask for forgiveness.

  3. #33
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    Amnesty may not be the right term, then.
    No, I am quite certain that if Happy had of meant grovel, or the like, he would have used that term. Instead, he specifically used the word "Amnesty." Again, this is about olive branches and forgiveness. Your intent is not one of that so really you are in disagreement with an amnesty program. The program you reference is about "Paying." And perhaps that has already been done by the banning to begin with. ie: the business garnered you mentioned (although I don't think many of them relied on rtf to generate business). And yes, they certainly would have the opportunity to mess up their amnesty. But walking on egg shells shouldn't be necessary, either.

    but I don't miss some of the arrogant rudeness and condescending way some of them acted.
    And, we have this anyway. Even without the banned. Look at some of the current participants, who tell "oldsters" to "Kiss my Ass." Or the questioning of abilities. And the like. Really? really? How is that being anything like a Peanut? It doesn't matter if one says, "Oh, I was only kidding" later. We all know they were not kidding.

    Things are not always as they seem. Amnesty gets around male or female, attempts at conversations that never happen, etc. Throwing friends under the bus, etc.

    And you're right,
    Respect is a two way street.
    It has to be practiced by all, along with being a peanut.

    Sometimes people just need to let go of the negative. The Universe takes care of the other piddly stuff.

    Kind regards-
    Susan

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  4. #34
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kelder View Post
    If I can be forgiven ( I was ) , anyone can ... Moderators have hearts too regards........................
    I forgot what you did? What was it, exactly?
    Susan

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    I forgot what you did? What was it, exactly?
    We don't need to see that video again-

  6. #36
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    No, I am quite certain that if Happy had of meant grovel, or the like, he would have used that term. Instead, he specifically used the word "Amnesty." Again, this is about olive branches and forgiveness. Your intent is not one of that so really you are in disagreement with an amnesty program. The program you reference is about "Paying." And perhaps that has already been done by the banning to begin with. ie: the business garnered you mentioned (although I don't think many of them relied on rtf to generate business). And yes, they certainly would have the opportunity to mess up their amnesty. But walking on egg shells shouldn't be necessary, either.
    The olive branches were extended by the head peanut when the head peanut tried very hard to have a dialog prior to the banning. None of the parties were interested in reaching out and taking the branch, resulting in the unfortunate action that was taken. And really, I don't think the term amnesty applies here at all, since it's more of a forgiveness than actual amnesty. Here's the dictionary definition (note the bolded part):

    "In criminal law, a sovereign act of oblivion or forgetfulness (from Greek amnestia, “forgetfulness”) granted by a government, especially to a group of persons who are guilty of (usually political) crimes in the past. It is often conditional upon the group's return to obedience and duty within a prescribed period."

    It would be hard to give blanket amnesty without some reasonable conditions, according to the definition. And that requires some level of dialog. It does not mean groveling, profuse apologies, bowing and scraping or anything else. Let's try this: Peanut Shell says "Hey, Head Peanut...what can I do to get back on RTF?" Head Peanut says something like "Promise to play nice". Peanut Shell says "Deal." Easy, and no groveling needed.

    I don't think anyone was...or is....making a living off of RTF. But I do know there were several dog sales, breedings, puppy sales, and the like that would not have happened without the RTF connection. Maybe those few thousand dollars are peanuts (pun intended ) and not important, I don't know.



    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    And, we have this anyway. Even without the banned. Look at some of the current participants, who tell "oldsters" to "Kiss my Ass." Or the questioning of abilities. And the like. Really? really? How is that being anything like a Peanut? It doesn't matter if one says, "Oh, I was only kidding" later. We all know they were not kidding.
    I agree that there are folks still around who have been rude...but they either back down or get contacted by the Head Peanut and things get worked out. And if they still don't play nice, they're outta here...we just aren't used to seeing them as much so we don't miss them or notice they're gone.

    I guess I have this silly idea that the more experienced folks....especially those who train dogs for a living...would have more patience with newbies (because we were all one too) and ignore the fools. If somebody clueless gives really awful advice, it's far more productive to follow it up with good advice and a short statement saying why the bad advice was bad, instead of telling the clueless person what an idiot they are. That's being the peanut.

    I truly do miss the missing folks, and I hope their return happens. With balance


    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    Sometimes people just need to let go of the negative. The Universe takes care of the other piddly stuff.
    How very true! Negativity has no place here...well said!
    Sharon Potter

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  7. #37
    Senior Member txrancher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    Amnesty may not be the right term, then. If blanket forgiveness/amnesty is given, what makes the forgiven play by the house rules?

    I miss most of the banned as well, but I don't miss some of the arrogant rudeness and condescending way some of them acted. If a clean slate is wanted, they should have to at least recognize that they didn't play by the rules before and will try to do better this time around,and that requires some small level of dialog. I don't think that's unfair, given the resource this forum is...and I'm not talking about just posts, I'm talking about the business garnered from participation (dogs/pups sold, training clients gained, etc.)...which they all had. Respect is a two way street.
    Perhaps pardon would be more appropriate than amnesty. However I am in agreement with Sharon on the issue, there are too many quick fingers on the keyboards at times that intimidate and are offensive and just plain rude and uncalled for!
    I ignore stupidity unless you bring it to my attention!
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  8. #38
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    The olive branches were extended by the head peanut when the head peanut tried very hard to have a dialog prior to the banning. None of the parties were interested in reaching out and taking the branch, resulting in the unfortunate action that was taken.
    Well, this is really an assumption since neither of us were a party to any conversation or communication between the parties involved. Nor is it necessary for us to be part of it. And, again, there is more to it than what it may seem on the surface. And, as usual, there are two sides to every story. But that is not what is important, it's about starting over.


    And really, I don't think the term amnesty applies here at all, since it's more of a forgiveness than actual amnesty. Here's the dictionary definition (note the bolded part):

    "In criminal law, a sovereign act of oblivion or forgetfulness (from Greek amnestia, “forgetfulness”) granted by a government, especially to a group of persons who are guilty of (usually political) crimes in the past. It is often conditional upon the group's return to obedience and duty within a prescribed period."

    It would be hard to give blanket amnesty without some reasonable conditions, according to the definition.
    Amnesty does not necessary involve "reasonable conditions" as you put it, and usually does not. It would be a mistake to suggest same. Amnesty is the abolition and forgetfulness of the offense. Pardon is forgiveness." Knote v. U.S. 95 U.S. 149, 152, 24 L.Ed.442. Sometimes it's hard to use a dictionary for legal terms. Happy was not suggesting a pardon, which is really what you refer to.

    And that requires some level of dialog. It does not mean groveling, profuse apologies, bowing and scraping or anything else. Let's try this: Peanut Shell says "Hey, Head Peanut...what can I do to get back on RTF?" Head Peanut says something like "Promise to play nice". Peanut Shell says "Deal." Easy, and no groveling needed.
    again, we have not been privy, and certainly don't need to be, nor would I want to be. However, to suggest it's that easy, I think some people would have been back a long time ago. And, that's the point again of amnesty. It certainly takes away the emotion out of it.

    I don't think anyone was...or is....making a living off of RTF. But I do know there were several dog sales, breedings, puppy sales, and the like that would not have happened without the RTF connection. Maybe those few thousand dollars are peanuts (pun intended ) and not important, I don't know.
    I have no hard core numbers to quantify this so I can't begin to refute or support this position. Certain people are well enough known in their own right.



    I agree that there are folks still around who have been rude...but they either back down or get contacted by the Head Peanut and things get worked out. And if they still don't play nice, they're outta here...we just aren't used to seeing them as much so we don't miss them or notice they're gone.
    A matter of perception. Some people don't back down. They just keep clicking.

    I guess I have this silly idea that the more experienced folks....especially those who train dogs for a living...would have more patience with newbies (because we were all one too) and ignore the fools. If somebody clueless gives really awful advice, it's far more productive to follow it up with good advice and a short statement saying why the bad advice was bad, instead of telling the clueless person what an idiot they are. That's being the peanut.
    you must have missed the posts where the newbie is telling the experienced person, some of who are very well known, that THEY are the idiot. And they run one or two field trials and become the expert, declaring on websites they run field trials or the like.

    I truly do miss the missing folks, and I hope their return happens. With balance
    balance is always a good thing. From everyone. Anyone granted amnesty would not be able to run wild, so to speak, but treat others nicely.

    But, that's the other nice thing about amnesty, these discussions just go away.
    Susan

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  9. #39
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    90% of the time the issues have nothing to do with the janitor. I think that's why people don't see a need to make apologies to someone who had nothing to do with what is usually an argument or name calling. Silly concept to have to apologize to someone for no reason?

  10. #40
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    We can debate definitions until the cows come home. The bottom line is that to give blanket amnesty without any dialog is to affirm the negative behavior that caused the problems in the first place.

    I've seen plenty of those "instant expert" posts. I prefer to ignore them....they're pretty obvious and often done just for the attention...if ignored, they go away. And for those who do train and compete...there is always somebody higher on the food chain, so arrogance gains nothing, and in fact, loses respect. I've learned from experience here that there are people who have a tremendous amount of knowledge to share, and I will learn as much as I can from them....but I've also been on the receiving end of some pretty ugly behavior, behind the scenes of course...and while I still have great respect for their knowledge and ability, I have to separate that from the personality behind it. Separate the grain from the chaff, so to speak.

    Anyway, it will all work out the way it's supposed to...whichever way that goes.
    Sharon Potter

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    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

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