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Thread: Zimmerman

  1. #51
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    It was actually in Norfolk, VA and the skittles reference was sarcasm... Here's a link

    http://hamptonroads.com/2012/05/beat...and-brambleton
    Interesting article. If a mob beating isn't news in Norfolk, that must mean they occur all the time, which is news in itself. Didn't realize that Norfolk was another Philadelphia.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    I have read more than once that shows like CSI have made things very hard in the courtroom because on those shows, there is always DNA evidence and it is always definitive when in reality, that is simply not the case. I haven't read every statement that Zimmerman has given nor have I heard all the testimony, but so far it seems to me that there is plenty of reason to believe that Trayvon's friend's opinion could have been clouded and her voice identification could have been mistaken (Get off!, get off!). Cell phones don't always provide the best sound. Not likely that the actual eye witness couldn't tell who was on top, nor that the physical evidence as observed by the police was completely wrong, so since doubt goes to the defense, so far I'm scoring in favor of Zimmerman. Shoot, I want him to walk just to see the rantings of Sharpton, Jackson, Waters, and whoever that black woman in the pink cowboy hat was. The riots will be epic!
    I have read this also. I question the comment that his DNA wasn't present on the gun or holster due to his not actually getting a hold of either. It does seem to me that Z should have been very dazed after all that he said T had done to him. Especially after having been forced to kill him to save his own life. Coming out of it calm and collected like the witness who talked to Z right after and took the pictures doesn't ad up with the overwhelming beating that is being claimed.

    I think the only thing the girls testimony does is show the verbal altercation. The rest is her opinion and not worth much. This goes directly against T surprising Z with sucker punch. This whole thing hinges IMO on how the altercation started.

    In regards to the witnesses, the one man confirms that T was on Z, identifying them by shirt color. He is the same that said he saw downward blows but nothing that could be considered head bashing.

    Personally I believe you aren't alone in that you want to stick it to the likes of Al and Jessie. No ones child should have their killer walk free just to get back at those two clowns. Another huge problem is the affect this could have on concealed carry and stand your ground laws. I don't carry personally but I believe it to be a right. Situations like this will just fire up the antis and give them a martyr to exploit for their cause. It is no different than how the antis have shamelessly used Sandy Hook to further their agenda. Their goal is gun prohibition, not saving the children.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    an odd note, it seems.
    Z says Tray was on him, sitting on him. when he shot him in the chest.
    Yet, no blood on the front of Z's shirt?
    I just think that is odd.
    and the cement side walk that was going to kill Z.
    Tray was over 6 feet from it.
    again, odd.
    more holes than it takes to fill the Albert Hall, Z's story has.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    an odd note, it seems.
    Z says Tray was on him, sitting on him. when he shot him in the chest.
    Yet, no blood on the front of Z's shirt?
    I just think that is odd.
    and the cement side walk that was going to kill Z.
    Tray was over 6 feet from it.
    again, odd.
    more holes than it takes to fill the Albert Hall, Z's story has.
    One of the responding officers said in court they didn't know trayvon was shot until they lifted up his shirt and saw the bullet hole. And after he was shot he got off of Zimmerman and said something to the effect of "alright, you win". I assume he could have stumbled 6 feet from the sidewalk. These are things that have been mentioned in court and accepted as evidence. I hope that this fills some of those holes for you,

    But in the end, nobody wins in this case

  5. #55
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olliedog View Post

    I think the only thing the girls testimony does is show the verbal altercation. The rest is her opinion and not worth much. 1. This goes directly against T surprising Z with sucker punch. This whole thing hinges IMO on how the altercation started.

    In regards to the witnesses, the one man confirms that T was on Z, identifying them by shirt color. 2. He is the same that said he saw downward blows but nothing that could be considered head bashing.

    Another huge problem is the affect this could have on concealed carry and stand your ground laws. I don't carry personally but I believe it to be a right. 3. Situations like this will just fire up the antis and give them a martyr to exploit .
    1. Zimmerman has himself said in his statement that Travon approached him and asked him what "his problem was". The fact of a verbal confrontation is apparently not in dispute, but I can still sucker punch you (especially in the dark) if we are standing talking or even arguing. I don't have to come up to you unseen, you simply have to not be expecting the punch.

    2. As I understand it, that witness went back into the house to call 911 so he could easily have missed the head bashing.

    3. Those folks need no excuse to get lathered up into a frenzy, so putting Zimmerman in jail just to prevent that seems wrong, and probably ineffective.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
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  6. #56
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudminnow View Post
    One of the responding officers said in court they didn't know trayvon was shot until they lifted up his shirt and saw the bullet hole. And after he was shot he got off of Zimmerman and said something to the effect of "alright, you win". I assume he could have stumbled 6 feet from the sidewalk. These are things that have been mentioned in court and accepted as evidence. I hope that this fills some of those holes for you,

    But in the end, nobody wins in this case
    I'm with you on these two. I have shot numerous large game (deer and nilgai) and had a hard time finding the entry wound. Not all tissues are equally vascularized and blood doesn't necessarily seem to squirt. I have also shot a number of animals with clearly fatal hits that managed to make some significant distance before falling. I know that folks shot on TV bleed like stuck pigs even though they also fall instantly dead (energetic bleeding pretty much requires a beating heart), but, at least with deer and nilgai, this is not always the case. It's the exit wound that bleeds, and I've never gotten one on a nilgai.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
    (John Dewey)

    Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
    (George Washington)

    Gig'em Aggies!! BTCO'77HOO t.u.!!

    www.HughLieck.photoshelter.com

  7. #57
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Ken, you do hunt right? Ever shoot a deer and not find blood for 10 yards? 20 yards? I've had them go further than that without finding the first drop... Only to find the animal dead nearby.

    Try as you might to make the man guilty, you're going to have to wait till it goes to the jury and they come back.
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olliedog View Post
    I was more than willing to say that if his story holds true then he should walk. Unfortunately his story has more than a few issues IMO.

    1: He claimed to be the one screaming and while pounding Z's head T tried to cover his mouth. There was no DNA on T's hands.
    2: The neighbor mentioned earlier that said T was straddling Z confirmed the downward blows of T pounding Z also stated he saw nothing like T slamming Z's head.
    3:The defense claims T sucker punched Z. The girl T was on the phone with said there was a verbal confrontation followed by the scuffle. The verbal altercation was also heard by the other witnesses. That is why they knew something was going on before the gunshot.
    4: Z claimed T was going for his gun yet there was no DNA to back that claim on the gun or the holster.
    5: The other witness who came out after the gunshot spoke about how calm Z was. This is odd considering he was supposedly just getting pounded, smothered and having his head pounded into the concrete to where Z feared for his life.
    6 After all that happened in #5 Z was able to immediately jump on T and spread him out. I would think that getting pounded as he claimed Z would be dazed considerably and unable to do as he claims. He also wouldn't have had the presence of mind to interrupt the witness who he asked to call his wife who was trying to break the news and telling him to just tell her he shot someone. Because he was dazed from getting his head pounded.
    7: My wife fell dismounting her bike recently. The damage to her knee and the bruise on her hip and arm far exceeded the damage to the back of Z's head. His nose was another story.

    I personally don't believe mister Zimmerman is telling the truth and the witnesses seem to corroborate that to a great degree. He is in trouble.
    I maybe a little late on this but I felt the need to respond to your list.

    1. "Try" An attempt or try does not make it close to successful, I may "try" to hit you and miss altogether, so Zimmerman could have reported what he thought Tray Tray was "trying" to do. The same goes for the "going for the gun attempt", he could have seen Zimmerman's gun and "tried" to go for it, doesn't mean there will be any trace evidence left, a try is a try, its an attempt at something, its hard to measure its success.
    2. You can prevent the intensity of the "head bashing" if you are still aware and able to fight, Zimmerman as a pretty thick neck, probably can control where you force his head and knows how to slow it down or stiffen it up to where you aren't going to hurt him as badly. Keep in mind, he had enough fight in him to end the fight when the opportunity presented itself.
    3. Comparing your wife's bike wreck to a fist fight is apples and oranges, what was her speed, what was it that she landed on, did the bike get involved, people can suffer the same exact accident and sustain various degrees of injuries.

  9. #59
    Senior Member RailRoadRetrievers's Avatar
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    Also, one more thing that has been brought up during the course of this trial in the commentary. Trayvon was getting the best of Zimmerman, therefore Zimmerman was a coward and shot him, this was excessive force.

    When I was a kid in middle school and high school when we threw down, which was common, very common, I never had the fear of getting beat up to the point of someone kicking my face in while I am down or the fear that they were going to try to end my life. You fought until the person either fell down and had enough or declared they have had enough. Today its not like that, you don't know how far the other person would take it and by standers won't get involved any more, they will just video it and post it on You Tube. If while carrying I am in a confrontation, the person I am fighting is getting the better of me, and he says "Today you are gonna die", then I am going to do everything in my power to live and if that means he loses his life, then so be it.

  10. #60
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    It is said that any time you go to court you face lies and I think that is pretty much true. At least one witness is I feel less than "accurate". I don't know her name but since she lied about her age and I can't watch video stuff on my computer I can't watch her to see how she acts. Of course lawyers are the best at that sort of thing ( very good actors ). We will never know the truth about this case. George may not be the brightest bulb in the pack but he has more sense than to say some things that would put him in a bad light shall we say. And he does not always tell the truth. Is anyone betting on the book or movie deal ? And who will tell the story ? I'm really very tired of some people using this case to get attention for themselves.
    charly

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