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Thread: Fair but tough test or tricking the dogs?

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    Senior Member Brad's Avatar
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    Default Fair but tough test or tricking the dogs?

    Can some one help me understand the difference between all three (fair, Tough, Tricking) and scenoarios.
    Thanks, Brad

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    unfair test : dog disappears from sight from the handler only to re appear off line....out of sight, out of the trial

    trick/unfair : a trend of planting a blind in places not normally found, such as at the foot of the bird boy

    a wipeout flyer could also be considered a trick by some

    bird placement is an art that usually separates the great judges from the average ones
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    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    Fair but tough test is any test my dog passes.
    Unfair test/tricking the dogs is any test he fails .

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    Senior Member mostlygold's Avatar
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    I think most tough tests are also fair. I don't consider a trick test tough, just unfair. Trick test - dropping a short bird behind a bush or tree where the dog can't see the fall and putting a longer bird almost in line. Unfair would be retiring a close gun while the birds are still going down. Putting the blind planter where the dog has to pass them to get to the blind. Having a portion of your blind where your dog is completely out of sight while on line.

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    I would say that this question is going to open up a lot of discussion. The problem with all of this is perception. If you keep a few things in mind it will help you sort out a lot of questions in your mind.

    First, you have to understand that judges are dog trainers too. Whether pro or amateur, they have trained a dog or two in their lifetime and generally know a little about the subject and, therefore, know exactly how you have trained for the level that you are testing for and will set up tests accordingly. This may mean that the test is within the guidelines but they are aware that not everyone has trained for the situation. A good example of this would be a judge that sets out a whole spread of full body snows at a junior test. Fair? It's within the rules. Do they know that it will be a separator for the people that haven't trained for it? Sure they do.

    Secondly, according to the rules the judges decision is final. That means that if the club or the organization doesn't have a problem with it, then it's fair. End of story. We in the gallery may disagree, but ultimately it's not up to us. What is up to us is whether or not we choose to participate. I have been to a large percentage of tests that the test dog would have undeniably failed but the setup wasn't changed. Is that fair? Maybe not but, see above.

    Last, not all tests are easy and you are not going to pass all of them. That doesn't make them unfair. Nothing in life worth doing is easy. The goal of tests is to bring to light the dogs with true talent and trainability. This is for a lot of reasons. If you get the mindset not that the test was unfair, but that you want to train harder in order to spend time with your dog and make you and them better at whatever endeavor you pursue then you will be in good shape.

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    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    A trick test, is one where the dog fails by doing the "right" thing. It's the opposite of a fair test.

    A tough test, is one where the dog is very strongly influenced to do the "wrong" thing.
    Last edited by copterdoc; 06-22-2013 at 08:05 PM.

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    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Think of it like this.

    Tests ask questions.
    If the dog/handler team answer those questions correctly, they deserve to pass the test.

    However, trick tests ask trick questions. And, the only way to get a trick question right, is by luck.
    In fact, the better you know the "real answers" the more likely you are to be fooled by a trick question.

    Because, trick questions don't have real answers.

    It IS hard to get a tough question right in a test. But, if you studied hard enough, you can answer it correctly.
    Last edited by copterdoc; 06-22-2013 at 08:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    A trick test, is one where the dog fails by doing the "right" thing. It's the opposite of a fair test.

    A tough test, is one where the dog is very strongly influenced to do the "wrong" thing.
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    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad View Post
    Can some one help me understand the difference between all three (fair, Tough, Tricking) and scenoarios.
    Thanks, Brad
    If you stay in the game long enough and run different venues, then perhaps you will experience all three first-hand. Most are fair, some are tough and occaisionally some are tricky.

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    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    A trick test, is one where the dog fails by doing the "right" thing. It's the opposite of a fair test.

    A tough test, is one where the dog is very strongly influenced to do the "wrong" thing.
    GOOD answer Doc!
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