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Thread: Egypt

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Henlee, you may not be old enough to remember the difference made in Arab-Israel relations by Anwar Sadat. It looked like there could be real progress through him as the leader of Egypt. He was assassinated. Things might have been very different now if that had not happened.

    Meanwhile ... the death toll is now 39 protestors in Egypt. Morsi has rejected the military's ultimatum.

    As for stabilizing the region. I don't think we can say the events of the past two years have done that. Iraq and Afghanistan are not stable. Libya is less stable. Syria is not stable. Egypt is not stable. You might say that Iran is stable. Saudi Arabia has remained pretty stable.

    You could be right about 50 years ... maybe 100 ... IF we stay out of their way and let them work out their own tribal problems. As long as they have periods of temporary unity by focusing on the US as the meddling outsider, it postpones them devoting their attention to resolving their own factionalism.
    The only thing that will change in the Middle East over the next 50,60 or however many years is the death toll of American Military personnel sent there by old men (read politicians) to "stabilize" the situation so that "peaceful" change can take place.....
    What a load of crap.-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  2. #12
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    In consideration of this situation in Egypt, we may yet regret having given the Morsi govt all those armaments.
    "we" meaning you and I and most US citizens. However our government knows exactly why they did it.
    Either these Harvard and Yale graduates are the stupidest creatures on earth or they have a reason or objective for selling us down the river.
    Pete
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  3. #13
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    "we" meaning you and I and most US citizens. However our government knows exactly why they did it.
    Either these Harvard and Yale graduates are the stupidest creatures on earth or they have a reason or objective for selling us down the river.
    Pete
    Yeah, they do.......the New World Order and progressivism.

    Harvard is the home/base of progressivism in America.
    Yes, that includes guys like McCain and Bush and the Clintons and Obama and Gore and Kerry etc.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    The only thing that will change in the Middle East over the next 50,60 or however many years is the death toll of American Military personnel sent there by old men (read politicians) to "stabilize" the situation so that "peaceful" change can take place.....
    What a load of crap.-Paul
    If we could relieve our dependence on ME oil, and we have the means to do that, it would help a lot. We could step back and let them work out their own problems. If they got real nasty with Israel or Jordan, we might have to help out those two countries.

    Actually, it's a shame what happened in Egypt. Egypt has always been a bit more secular than some other countries. Perhaps that was why it could produce a leader like Sadat. With millions of demonstrators bringing Cairo to a standstill, it seems that Egyptians are committed to rejecting a leader who tries to make them into a theocracy, which they contend was contrary to his pre-election promises.

    And the US finds itself between a rock and a hard spot. US supported Morsi (also according to his pre-election promises, it would appear), and called for Mubarak to step down. Now if they ask Morsi to step down (just one year later), it's an admission of being duped. Below the surface, it also shows a lack of commitment to those they called "allies", which would lead to even more distrust of US constancy to its "friends". That would be noticed not just in the ME, but around the world. OTOH, the dissatisfaction of the ordinary citizens being demonstrated now seems even stronger than that expressed against Mubarak.

    One has to have a certain respect, even if grudgingly, for the Egpytian military. They exercised a lot of restraint during the previous transition, and seem to be doing so again. They have the weaponry to crush whichever side they opposed, but they have shown more respect for their fellow citizens than their politicians' have. In fact, they had power leading up to elections, and they stood back to let elections take place.

    The Muslim Brotherhood may have bitten off more than they could chew in Egypt.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Editorial from Fox online:
    So far, the Obama administration seems to be playing its limited cards well. President Obama has said that Egyptians, not Americans, must choose Egypt’s government, suggesting that America remains neutral in this monumental power struggle. But, tipping his hand in favor of the protesters, Obama also said that democracy means more than winning elections.

    Indeed, democracy demands a civil society—equality, fairness, tolerance, respect for human and minority rights, and individual freedom. That’s just what Egyptians are demanding, and what the Muslim Brotherhood has denied them during its hapless rule.



    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/...#ixzz2Y0M2AUrs
    I would agree that this is the best he can do ... remain neutral. Let's hope he doesn't waffle on that.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  6. #16
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    Just read that Egypt's military is in control now. Not sure is Morsi has been put under house arrest or what is going on there. Anyone else hear anything ?
    charly

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  7. #17
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    If anyone believes this overthrow was done by just the Egyptian people, please research the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran in the 1950's. I do not believe we are being neutral in this event.

  8. #18
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    the US has again proven that they always back the wrong horse....heck they are even worse than Franco when it comes to picking the wrong side....I sure wish they would back the Sooners this fall
    All my Exes live in Texas

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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudminnow View Post
    If anyone believes this overthrow was done by just the Egyptian people, please research the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran in the 1950's. I do not believe we are being neutral in this event.
    Surely there could be a lot going on behind the scenes that we will never know about ... how well we've learned that lesson of late

    Obama's statement did warn the military about a military coup that could result in cutting off US aid. Seems like the military put together a plan to try and preserve order and also civilian govt that would move it toward new elections. Seems that the military put together a representative group to lay out the game plan. If Morsi had not been concerned with protecting his own status, he could have done something very similar.

    It would also appear that since Morsi was not willing to do that, the situation could have devolved into a lot of bloodshed, if the military had not moved as they did. I'm not one to favor martial law, but it seems the military kept cooler heads than the civilians in this case. Time will tell.

    Perhaps the Egyptians will get another chance to make a wiser electoral choice. Those millions who camped out in cities throughout the country are certainly less naive about campaign promises on the second go-round.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

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  10. #20
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    As I watch the celebration taking place in Cairo's Tahrir Square my thoughts turn less to ME/Egyptian politics and purely to the logistics of this situation.
    Who is going to clean up? The military? The participants? The Government? (Oh wait, there is no government.) The citizens of Cairo?
    Does there sit on the sidelines some entrepreneur? Some clever Coptic or Jew, who says tonight, "Ahmed, roll out the trucks with the porta-potties, the trucks with the bottled water, the shish-ka-bob trucks, And stage the clean-up trucks for the conclusion."
    "We'll bill someone... ???? right?"

    Yasgur Farm regards, JD
    Last edited by JDogger; 07-03-2013 at 08:31 PM.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

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