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Thread: First Golden Retriever Bench Champion

  1. #31
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    At the beginning of US field trials I've read somewhere that Goldens were considered the superior water dog. How times have changed!



    I apologize for rambling thoughts ...
    I loved reading your rambling thoughts, am looking forward to seeing you in Texas this Fall.

    John

  2. #32
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
    Change isn't always a bad thing.
    First Miss America contest.



    Attachment 14017
    Good one, Barb!!!

  3. #33
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Breeding for "conformation" effs everything up.
    That's what needs to be taken from this.

    OUR ideas of "conformation" are hopelessly, and irreparably flawed.

    What works in the field, is simply what WORKS in the field. As long as there is a difference between the bench and the field, a breed split is the inevitable outcome. The only other option, is mediocrity in both venues.

    Pick a venue and excel in it. That's what Labs did.
    And they picked the one that mattered.
    Last edited by copterdoc; 07-07-2013 at 09:56 PM.

  4. #34
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    Gotta disagree with you here, in my humble and often wrong opinion.

    Breeding strictly to win is what effs everything up. Doesn't matter which venue you are trying to win.

    "Conformation" means the dog conforms to the breed standard. Don't see how breeding to conform to the standard could possibly eff everything up. It's when people breed to only select parts of the standard, ignoring the other parts, that we have issues. For example, the Golden standard reads, "primarily a hunting dog...." (often ignored), also says, "Coat -- Dense and water repellent with good undercoat. Outer coat firm and resilient, neither coarse nor silky, lying close to body; may be straight or wavy...." (often ignored)...and so on.


    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Breeding for "conformation" effs everything up.
    That's what needs to be taken from this.

    OUR ideas of "conformation" are hopelessly, and irreparably flawed.

    What works in the field, is simply what WORKS in the field. As long as there is a difference between the bench and the field, a breed split is the inevitable outcome. The only other option, is mediocrity in both venues.

    Pick a venue and excel in it. That's what Labs did.
    And they picked the one that mattered.
    Last edited by hotel4dogs; 07-08-2013 at 06:24 AM.

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA SH MXP MJP OFP VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  5. #35
    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Pick a venue and excel in it. That's what Labs did.
    And they picked the one that mattered.
    Couldn't have said it better myself!

    Lonnie Spann
    DISCLAIMER: The above post is the opinionated and biased view of your's truly, Lonnie Spann, and is in no way intended to reflect the opinions or views of the unfortunate individuals named below who just happen to be doomed with guilt by association.

    Member of CAHRC and North AL HRC. I train with AND AM FRIENDS WITH: Fishduck, Laidback, Splash_Em, RF2, Drake2014, Claimsadj, Hooked on Quackers, RookieTrainer and Roseberry.

    HRCH Spann's Quacker Jack "Jack" 500 Pt. Club (New & IMPROVED jacket).

  6. #36
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Breeding for "conformation" effs everything up.
    That's what needs to be taken from this.

    OUR ideas of "conformation" are hopelessly, and irreparably flawed.

    What works in the field, is simply what WORKS in the field. As long as there is a difference between the bench and the field, a breed split is the inevitable outcome. The only other option, is mediocrity in both venues.

    Pick a venue and excel in it. That's what Labs did.
    And they picked the one that mattered
    .
    They did? I wonder what percentage of the total Lab owners population has even heard of field trials or hunt test. From what I have heard it is pretty much a tie on which breed's show dog has deviated the most from the original field oriented structure and build.

  7. #37
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    From what I have heard it is pretty much a tie on which breed's show dog has deviated the most from the original field oriented structure and build.
    The show ring eventually ruins ALL breeds.

    It just needs time.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    From what I have heard it is pretty much a tie on which breed's show dog has deviated the most from the original field oriented structure and build.
    While hunt tests and field trials are not comparable in in level of difficulty, it is encouraging to see that GRCA recognizes the dogs who have CHs and MHs ... or CHs and QAA. It is even more encouraging to know that there actually are dogs that continue to achieve those accomplishments.

    While it's been a long, dry spell for both breeds since the last Dual CH, perhaps not all is lost when there are still people who care about bridging the gap ... and producing dogs who are capable of doing so.

    I think most of the dogs (in Goldens) who achieve the field and show titles are a more moderate version of the show ring population. They may also be a rung lower on the ladder of field achievement of the top field trial competitors ... but isn't it Ted Shih who often says "The perfect is the enemy of the good,"?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    It goes without saying that Glenda is one of Goldens' national treasures! As long as there are people like Glenda who can navigate the waters between field and show, there is hope for each group coming closer together, or at least understanding each other a little better.
    Gerry,
    I agree with you 100%. I don't want to hijack your thread, but this is a good time to comment about "understanding each other a littler better". I'm with the Dallas GR club, host of this year's National. Glenda has been very helpful to us in setting up something special for the Field Trial that has not happened in a long, long time.

    My club extended the invitation to the 3 Conformation judges at the National (Best of Breed, Dogs and Bitches) to attend the first day of the Field Trial with an experienced Field Trial mentor as their "guide". Two of the three have accepted and will be there. We are also extending this invitation to the those judges attending the Judges Education Seminar at the National. I won't know until about a month before the National how many of them are interested in coming. We hope all of you who are competing that day will make them feel welcome. I think that it is a fitting event for this 75th anniversary of the GRCA.

    Ann
    2013 GRCA National Fundraising Chair
    Last edited by luvgld; 07-08-2013 at 01:44 PM.
    Ann
    Dallas

    "Sawyer" - Merichase Tails of Mark Twain
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  10. #40
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvgld View Post
    Gerry,
    I agree with you 100%. I don't want to hijack your thread, but this is a good time to comment about "understanding each other a littler better". I'm with the Dallas GR club, host of this year's National. Glenda has been very helpful to us in setting up something special for the Field Trial that has not happened in a long, long time.

    My club extended the invitation to the 3 Conformation judges at the National (Best of Breed, Dogs and Bitches) to attend the first day of the Field Trial with an experienced Field Trial mentor as their "guide". Two of the three have accepted and will be there. We are also extending this invitation to the those judges attending the Judges Education Seminar at the National. I won't know until about a month before the National how many of them are interested in coming. We hope all of you who are competing that day will make them feel welcome. I think that it is a fitting event for this 75th anniversary of the GRCA.

    Ann
    2013 GRCA National Fundraising Chair
    Wow Ann and Glenda, that is awesome! I look forward to meeting those judges and trying to make them feel welcome. Similar to Labs running field trials, I notice our field trial Goldens run the gamut from coyote looking Goldens to some dogs that I think look very much like the early bench Goldens and some that are very handsome by today's standard. I wonder what the confirmation judges will think of the whole?

    John

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