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Thread: First Golden Retriever Bench Champion

  1. #51
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    I agree, Sue. We do have a GCH/MH now and some CH that have MH titles that should be running some Quals. Some of it is just the vast amount of time/energy/money and the right dog to even think about doing both. Goldens used to be able to go from the field, maybe with or without a bath, into the show ring, and then be taken hunting during the week. Each venue is very demanding and the field trials are getting more and more difficult as the dogs are responding to the constantly improving training, more knowledgeable handlers, etc. Training grounds and access to water are disappearing for many of us and, yet, who wants to spend the weekend at a conformation show when you can be running a trial! But, the more field people know about what constitutes good conformation, the more likely we are to produce sound, athletic, hard running field dogs. Glenda

  2. #52
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    I'd also have to agree with you, Sue and Glenda. The closest we are likely to come is CH *** ... however, with the present difficulty of field trials, such a dog is probably very much like the quality of some titled dogs of years gone by. However, from what I've heard about Quar (the last Dual CH), his field ability was so amazing, with today's training he could probably do it now as well. We do have one CH ** right now. and he still has time to get that ***.

    Also agree with Glenda that even if another Dual CH is not to be, there is still a lot of virtue in making both "specialists" more aware of the other's perceptions. As John mentioned, there is a varied spectrum among field trial dogs. Those among them who represent correctness to the Standard deserve to be acknowledged as correct, even though they are "different" from what is most often the trend in conformation at any given point in time.

    I think it is worth noting that those field dogs who still resemble Campfire may have, indeed, preserved the vision present at the origin of the breed. It's not so bad to have dogs like that in the breed to act as a "reminder" of what came before.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  3. #53
    Senior Member Miriam Wade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    I'd also have to agree with you, Sue and Glenda. The closest we are likely to come is CH *** ... however, with the present difficulty of field trials, such a dog is probably very much like the quality of some titled dogs of years gone by. However, from what I've heard about Quar (the last Dual CH), his field ability was so amazing, with today's training he could probably do it now as well. We do have one CH ** right now. and he still has time to get that ***.

    Also agree with Glenda that even if another Dual CH is not to be, there is still a lot of virtue in making both "specialists" more aware of the other's perceptions. As John mentioned, there is a varied spectrum among field trial dogs. Those among them who represent correctness to the Standard deserve to be acknowledged as correct, even though they are "different" from what is most often the trend in conformation at any given point in time.

    I think it is worth noting that those field dogs who still resemble Campfire may have, indeed, preserved the vision present at the origin of the breed. It's not so bad to have dogs like that in the breed to act as a "reminder" of what came before.
    Just want to say thank you to everyone who has made this such an interesting thread to read, as well as the picture that speaks volumes about how the current "field Goldens" have evolved very little from the original Champions. It's simply fact.

    This is off on a tangent, but I love to read some of the older dog stories-Albert Payson Terhune, Nop's Trial's, etc. They illustrated the inherent qualities of herding dogs with a bit of a romanticized bent, but with an absolute passion and respect for what these dogs were bred to do. The Border Collie folks fought tooth and nail to keep the breed from being AKC recognized out of a very realistic fear that not only would they become popular and placed in homes that didn't understand their need to work and be mentally stimulated, but also that breeding for markings and change in coat, head type, etc. would trump breeding for intelligence and working ability. It's exactly what happened to the Golden Retriever. I don't need to rehash examples of dogs who are simply not birdy, driven and intelligent. It's all been said before.

    I do think it's a wonderful idea that conformation judges will be attending the field trial at the Specialty. I hope they go with an image of the first Dual Champion in mind and I hope they stand on line and get goosebumps when they see that these dogs are doing what they were bred to do and that their conformation and intelligence allows them to do it.

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  4. #54
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    I hope they go with an image of the first Dual Champion in mind
    Maybe the judges' "goodie bag" should include a photo of Noranby Campfire?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Maybe the judges' "goodie bag" should include a photo of Noranby Campfire?
    Oh I love that idea!
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Sue Kiefer's Avatar
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    I think that it is awesome that both the Conformation judges are willing to entertain the idea of standing(sitting)in a field watching the trial and vice versa but...........I don't need validation that my "field dogs live up to the "breed's standards".
    When I see the Conformation dogs have gone sooo over board. ex: coat, bone.
    And breeding them to that standard without any type of working titles have left them with the ability of never performing in any type of hunting situation without allot of work. They are just an average pet with a lot of good coat and bone.
    My opinion : just let it go...................
    Sorry I just don't see all your efforts making any difference.
    I would love to be proved wrong.
    Sue
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  7. #57
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    But Sue, you can't be proved wrong if we just let it go. I remain optimistic that at least two confirmation judges eyes will be opened just a bit. Baby steps in the right direction hopefully.

    John

  8. #58
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    I applaud the efforts of Glenda and company to educate the judges at the specialty and hopefully they will take what they learn to heart. However, the weekend show judge is not a "Golden" person. They judge our breed as part of a laundry list of breeds of which they are not experts. They have more interest in making the people that hire them happy than in determining whether or not the dogs in front of them could perform the tasks for which they were developed. Judges that don't put up dogs that are popular with the show crowd don't get invited back to judge. The unfortunate thing is that the AKC's methods for adding breeds to a judge's list does little to really ensure they are educated about the breed. The other issue is that they can only judge the dogs presented to them. As long as we, as Golden people, continue to breed and present dogs that lack focus on the breed's purpose the problem is perpetuated. Since Americans tend to head toward extremes, I really don't see this changing. When I had Quarter Horses, I also struggled with the wide split in the breed. My cutting horse looked nothing like the halter horses or the race horses. All were selectively bred to win in a particular venue but cross sport competition was not very common.

  9. #59
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    Gerry:

    I sent photos of a lot of the early Field Champions to Ann Burke with the idea of blowing them up in size and using them as decoration at the dinners, etc. during the National Specialty.

    Hope it works out ok as these were old photos, but it is important to emphasize our roots.

    Glenda

  10. #60
    Junior Member NWitters's Avatar
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    That really is amazing how much our goldens have changed over the years. Personally I have one "breed type" dog and two "field type" bitches. Hands down my girls can out work my boy any day of the week. That heavy bone does not hold up out in the field. Nothing prettier than a golden doing it's work out in a duck blind.

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