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Thread: improving water blinds

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=jerrod denton;1123257]I really think its her just giving me the paw[/QUOT

    Truthseeker said ,running cold don't look for perfection ...agree totally....
    Evan mentioned lack of effort...Some times this is hard to discern when the dog is not confident in it's new learning's...But it is possible, if so use pressure as he said...
    Gooser said to run more blinds in big water and longer distances ...agree here too...As he said concentrate on getting the cast ....
    It looks like you have gotten good advice so far...Talk things over with the pro that did the initial training and get his advise and then give it a try...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  2. #22
    Senior Member jerrod denton's Avatar
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    Thanks I do feel like ive got tons if great advice

  3. #23
    Senior Member bjoiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrod denton View Post
    pro isnt to worried about her now that shes home
    This is the one thing that bothers me the most about your post. I think you have received good advice so far, but if your pro doesn't care any more, I would find a new pro for your next dog. I've used a pro for one dog about ten years ago, and I could call him today for training advice. I also know several other pros that care and are more than willing to help that I have never paid. They understand that word of mouth is great advertising and are just good dog folks.
    Bubba Joiner

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  4. #24
    Senior Member jerrod denton's Avatar
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    Ive got to were I enjoy training so much now that I dont know if ill use a pro again. It Is what it is now ive got to work through it without him but I do have a really good friend that works for a great pro up north and helps talk me through problems as best as he can from another state

  5. #25
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    Some thoughts that may help.

    Without seeing your dog or the blinds you run I don't get the impression that you have a particular problem holding her back. Remember she's young and I wouldn't try to do real technical blinds at this age. Your question about how to improve your blinds is a good one and its a question that I feel is not well covered or at least apparent in training videos. The videos give you drills to transition to cold blinds but once your running cold blinds progression in training boils down to being able o design training blinds that challenge your dog enough to learn but are not so hard that they lead to lots of corrections and poor attitude. It's not always easy and requires reading your water and factors and taking them into account as you design your training setup.

    I have tried to make initial cold blinds relatively factor free. Put several blinds at edge of water and simply swim across the pond. Wind at your back, no shoreline to invite cheating,clean entry and hopefully just a few casts to get the bumper. Do at least 3 blinds each session and you should see improved attitude each blind. This type of 3 peat blind can be built upon as you can keep backing up with longer and longer entries.

    Gradually you can add a single factor. This would be similar to above but now you might run close to a shoreline with 3 blinds at different angles. You might add getting on and off a single obvious point. You might repeat blinds in different places that have an obvious picture like a clean channel. Theses single factor blinds can be built on or made more challenging by adding a crosswind blowing toward the point so your cast off into water is into the wind, or backing up so their entry is longer. These would be simple Q level water blinds but can still be fairly long.

    Past this point if you want to go more advanced then you incorporate more and more factors working together to make it harder for the dog to do the blind correctly. This could be done by taking your intermediate level blind with a single point and scenting the point with duck feathers, add a strong crosswind, add a dry shot on land, add a no see um entry, add a poison bird on land, make your point a non obvious "lazy" point, etc.

    Whether you add these factors into your blind design depends how he does with the simple concepts. You keep your standards the same. Stop on the whistle and change direction on each cast. If you are requiring many casts, many corrections, or seeing poor attitude then simplify back to the simpler blind design.

    I have not had luck with repeating the same blind or doing patterns. I think the dog learns not to take and carry casts if they know where they are going from the outset

    I also think the best way to get better at blinds is not in any one drill, but comes from running lots of blinds at the right level of difficulty

    Hope this makes sense.....

    Bill

  6. #26
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    Great post Bill Billlups, and very timely for me. My hardest bad habit to overcome is adding difficulty to soon. Now that I have a dog that really needs confidence building it is more important than ever. I have wide water, but not technical available to me. I am going to stick with the simple swims across the pond three times or more. I almost got in trouble yesterday asking him to run 50 yards beyond the waters edge. He should have had his reward just by arriving at the other side in the right place! Thanks for the reminder, might pin it to my forehead.
    Carol,
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    70/30 rule applies in all aspects of dog training. Not every blind needs to a factor filled scary nightmare.

    /Paul
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    My opinion.
    This is working well for me.

    run more blinds in Big Water and long distances.

    Concentrate on getting the cast you gave.

    Once they refuse or cave, forget the blind and work on the cast.
    This too is what I am working on. Getting the cast I gave. I am also learning to use pressure wisely after refusal or digging back as some say. And these blinds are in big water. and much longer distances with factors than we have worked on before. We balance it with a shorter blind and marks. It is certainly a different way than I did blinds in HRC! IMO
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Too add casting into the wind in water is difficult versus on land!IMO Good topic. Thanks
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
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    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI
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    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
    Uncle Ray

  10. #30
    Senior Member jerrod denton's Avatar
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    im very grateful for all the info ive got im feeling lots better now

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