The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 34

Thread: improving water blinds

  1. #11
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Acampo, Ca.
    Posts
    612

    Default

    If she has already been through all her foundation training and she is digging back off her angles. I would call my pro and ask him whats up.

    I could give you some thing to do, but this would be my best advise.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    5,180

    Default

    Jerrod,

    What specific steps of training did you do to get to this current point? That's very important to know.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

  3. #13
    Senior Member jerrod denton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Jonesboro,AR
    Posts
    216

    Default

    She was at pro for 6 months were she did ob,ff,cc,ftp,t work, pattern blinds on land and water then I brought her home and re did swimby, pattern blinds, blind drills, pattern blinds with divetsions, cold land blinds, done some simpe cheating singles, taught and cold chsnnel blinds did some more of those this morning cold, did some walk around blinds like twice she doesnt have a bad water attitude in my opinion just some times takes a good cast and sometimes takes cast but then goes right back to original line, ive done most of the blind work myself my pro isnt to worried about her now that shes home she runs beautiful land blimds out to 250 or 300 yards I kinda think we just need more water time

  4. #14
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Acampo, Ca.
    Posts
    612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrod denton View Post
    She was at pro for 6 months were she did ob,ff,cc,ftp,t work, pattern blinds on land and water then I brought her home and re did swimby, pattern blinds, blind drills, pattern blinds with divetsions, cold land blinds, done some simpe cheating singles, taught and cold chsnnel blinds did some more of those this morning cold, did some walk around blinds like twice she doesnt have a bad water attitude in my opinion just some times takes a good cast and sometimes takes cast but then goes right back to original line, ive done most of the blind work myself my pro isnt to worried about her now that shes home she runs beautiful land blimds out to 250 or 300 yards I kinda think we just need more water time
    This being said, I would drop back and do some pattern work for a session. This would let me know if she is confused or just giving me the paw.

    I also have to remind myself,( My dogs are not machines) after foundation training and I am running cold I do not look for perfection. I look more at working attitude and drive.

  5. #15
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    West Central AL
    Posts
    1,235

    Default

    My dog is with a pro right now working on a similar issue on land. He says my dog's water blinds are actually a little better because the water slows him down a little.

    Anyway, this dog has drive, confidence, and momentum out the wazoo, and he generally takes good initial lines, but he tends to scallop back on angle casts and roll back after a varying distance on overs. When I went over and worked with him last week, he was only getting angle backs and being required to go across the line to the blind at least once and preferably twice on his way out there.

    What my pro had figured out was that I had gotten too caught up in a straight line to the blind on pattern blinds, and I had let him get off line, given him on over back to the line, and then given him a straight back to the blind. Lather, rinse, repeat. He was correct.

    What I should have done with this dog was to give him casts and let him carry them back across the line for a good ways to get him to understand that when he hears the cue "dead bird" then he needs to hand me the reins right there. I didn't realize that, so my dog takes a cast about as far as I was normally handling him back to the line and then rolls back on an over, for example. I know, it made perfect sense to me too about 3 seconds after the pro explained it. Remember too that until they get out there to see a blind pole or flag they don't know where the blind is anyway. You really want them depending on your handling and just going where you tell them to go.

    The cure is that the dog is only getting angle backs for the time being on cold blinds, and he needs to cross the line to the blind at least once on his way out and preferably twice. He gets one non-cast (maybe) before he starts getting corrections for not taking the proper cast. I would note as well here that the pro thought I had lied to him about putting my dog through 8-handed casting (apparently the field work was that bad) but the dog did about two days of it without making a mistake, so it is clear that he understands the casts in the yard. My screw-up has hindered him from making the transition to the field with that.

    One more thing: my pro told me I have a dog that should NEVER be allowed to line a blind. Apparently I get high marks for drive, confidence, and momentum and demerits for control.

    If you recognize your dog in my description above and if you completed 8-handed casting and pattern blinds close to the way I did it, then you might try just giving angle backs and letting her carry casts further when she gets them right. Of course, this will also involve corrections when she scallops and a recast.

    Good luck. I never knew you had to be such a glutton for punishment to play the dog games.
    Last edited by RookieTrainer; 07-05-2013 at 12:23 PM.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  6. #16
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    5,180

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
    This being said, I would drop back and do some pattern work for a session. This would let me know if she is confused or just giving me the paw.

    I also have to remind myself,( My dogs are not machines) after foundation training and I am running cold I do not look for perfection. I look more at working attitude and drive.
    I'm offering a couple thoughts for you that you may not have considered. I hope this is helpful to you.

    1. You're moving into cold blinds now, correct? Why bounce back and forth between cold blinds and pattern blinds?
    2. You're right; dogs aren't machines. Even with good preparation and development, your dog will at times "give you the paw". In other words, your dog will at times not give a good effort. Corrections will be needed. Don't fear them, but be fair.

    These 250-300 yard blinds; are they cold land blinds?

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

  7. #17
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Acampo, Ca.
    Posts
    612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RookieTrainer View Post
    My dog is with a pro right now working on a similar issue on land. He says my dog's water blinds are actually a little better because the water slows him down a little.

    Anyway, this dog has drive, confidence, and momentum out the wazoo, and he generally takes good initial lines, but he tends to scallop back on angle casts and roll back after a varying distance on overs. When I went over and worked with him last week, he was only getting angle backs and being required to go across the line to the blind at least once and preferably twice on his way out there.

    What my pro had figured out was that I had gotten too caught up in a straight line to the blind on pattern blinds, and I had let him get off line, given him on over back to the line, and then given him a straight back to the blind. Lather, rinse, repeat. He was correct.

    What I should have done with this dog was to give him casts and let him carry them back across the line for a good ways to get him to understand that when he hears the cue "dead bird" then he needs to hand me the reins right there. I didn't realize that, so my dog takes a cast about as far as I was normally handling him back to the line and then rolls back on an over, for example. I know, it made perfect sense to me too about 3 seconds after the pro explained it. Remember too that until they get out there to see a blind pole or flag they don't know where the blind is anyway. You really want them depending on your handling and just going where you tell them to go.

    The cure is that the dog is only getting angle backs for the time being on cold blinds, and he needs to cross the line to the blind at least once on his way out and preferably twice. He gets one non-cast (maybe) before he starts getting corrections for not taking the proper cast. I would note as well here that the pro thought I had lied to him about putting my dog through 8-handed casting (apparently the field work was that bad) but the dog did about two days of it without making a mistake, so it is clear that he understands the casts in the yard. My screw-up has hindered him from making the transition to the field with that.

    One more thing: my pro told me I have a dog that should NEVER be allowed to line a blind. Apparently I get high marks for drive, confidence, and momentum and demerits for control.

    If you recognize your dog in my description above and if you completed 8-handed casting and pattern blinds close to the way I did it, then you might try just giving angle backs and letting her carry casts further when she gets them right. Of course, this will also involve corrections when she scallops and a recast.

    Good luck. I never knew you had to be such a glutton for punishment to play the dog games.

    Sorry, This was a answer to Even question

    I said that because I do not know this dog and I am not big on giving advise to burn. If it where "mine", I would know without having to go back and see.

    Thank you
    Keith
    Last edited by truthseeker; 07-05-2013 at 01:28 PM. Reason: Wrong quote

  8. #18
    Senior Member jerrod denton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Jonesboro,AR
    Posts
    216

    Default

    Yes evan there land blinds im not saying we alway run blinds that far normally I setup 2 or 3 different cold blinds that are somewhat the same factor wise but arent repeating the exact blind shes doing very good on land blinds but weve spent more time on it than water blinds and they weren't awesome at fitst either of course that why im thinking we probably just need to run more in the water and get the bugs worked out and maybe use a little pressure I havent used any pressure on water blinds yet what do you think im all ears and am truly listening to everyone

  9. #19
    Senior Member jerrod denton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Jonesboro,AR
    Posts
    216

    Default

    I really think its her just giving me the paw

  10. #20
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,289

    Default

    My opinion.
    This is working well for me.

    run more blinds in Big Water and long distances.

    Concentrate on getting the cast you gave.

    Once they refuse or cave, forget the blind and work on the cast.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •