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Thread: RTF-An observation & A Suggestion

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    The OP mentioned Wisconsin folk.

    Here is our addition to this thread, you know, to make it complete!!



    Now, off to "muddle!!"
    You started some training threads claiming to have offer up and take credit for "Roadkills SOLUTION" to some tricky line manner training problems.

    You then became indignant when one of the "pelted" people who freely offered you advice, corrected you and said that you had misconstrued their advice. You claimed their post was out of line.

    I referred to people offering up advice and solutions that may not be correct and observed that research indicated to me that some of those internet experts that seem to be taking over RTF don't have a stellar performance record on EE. You for example have nearly 10,000 posts and appear to have somewhat of a protected status on RTF. Those factors can tend to make others reticent to call you out. That in turn can give new trainers a feeling of confidence in your viewpoints; particularly when they go unchallenged

    Since offering up your "solutions" it appears as if you have not been able to pass any of the intermediate level test you have entered. From what you posted on other social media outlets it appears as if you barely even made it to the "bucket" at your tests. That makes me suspect that your "SOLUTION" may not have been found. If that is the case I pointed out that I believe those who use and accept RTF as a training resource may not have been well served by the peanutty attitude that is being encouraged here. I feel that in the freer wheeling RTF of old that some of the more experienced who no longer post due to disinterest, not liking the new culture, or being banned may have felt more comfortable about calling you out and having a freer dialogue to give opposing viewpoints for the lesser experienced to draw from

    You have let the cat out of the bag that you are one of the ones I referred to as Muddling. I don't mean to offend your sensibilities. However if it comes to protecting the sensibilities of thin skinned posters or protecting the newer trainers who use RTF from getting unopposed bad advice, I would think the forum would be better served to get the whole unvarnished truth.

  2. #162
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smillerdvm View Post
    You started some training threads claiming to have offer up and take credit for "Roadkills SOLUTION" to some tricky line manner training problems.

    You then became indignant when one of the "pelted" people who freely offered you advice, corrected you and said that you had misconstrued their advice. You claimed their post was out of line.

    I referred to people offering up advice and solutions that may not be correct and observed that research indicated to me that some of those internet experts that seem to be taking over RTF don't have a stellar performance record on EE. You for example have nearly 10,000 posts and appear to have somewhat of a protected status on RTF. Those factors can tend to make others reticent to call you out. That in turn can give new trainers a feeling of confidence in your viewpoints; particularly when they go unchallenged

    Since offering up your "solutions" it appears as if you have not been able to pass any of the intermediate level test you have entered. From what you posted on other social media outlets it appears as if you barely even made it to the "bucket" at your tests. That makes me suspect that your "SOLUTION" may not have been found. If that is the case I pointed out that I believe those who use and accept RTF as a training resource may not have been well served by the peanutty attitude that is being encouraged here. I feel that in the freer wheeling RTF of old that some of the more experienced who no longer post due to disinterest, not liking the new culture, or being banned may have felt more comfortable about calling you out and having a freer dialogue to give opposing viewpoints for the lesser experienced to draw from

    You have let the cat out of the bag that you are one of the ones I referred to as Muddling. I don't mean to offend your sensibilities. However if it comes to protecting the sensibilities of thin skinned posters or protecting the newer trainers who use RTF from getting unopposed bad advice, I would think the forum would be better served to get the whole unvarnished truth.
    Wow. Really? Your only criteria for someone having acceptable knowledge is Entry Express?

    Did it occur to you that just maybe someone who is starting out and has not got the "pelts" you seem to desire, may have run into a training problem, found a solution with the help of a pro or two and wants to tell people how he is working through it?

    As one of the people who has given Roadkill advice (which is, by the way, working *very* well for him so far, and he knows he needs to not run tests until it's straightened out) I freely admit I have no Entry Express "pelts"....feel free to look. I'm a gun dog trainer, who has little time for or interest in chasing ribbons because my weekends are very full either with clients or seminars. I spend an awful lot of time fixing problem dogs, many of those for people who do compete in tests and trials, and line manners is the biggest issue I deal with for them.

    Your inference that I (or anyone else) am automatically unqualified to give advice because I don't have a list of "pelts" is insulting and just plain rude.

    Lunch time is over....back out to work some dogs until dark (which I am obviously unqualified to do.)
    Sharon Potter

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  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    Wow. Really? Your only criteria for someone having acceptable knowledge is Entry Express?

    Did it occur to you that just maybe someone who is starting out and has not got the "pelts" you seem to desire, may have run into a training problem, found a solution with the help of a pro or two and wants to tell people how he is working through it?

    As one of the people who has given Roadkill advice (which is, by the way, working *very* well for him so far, and he knows he needs to not run tests until it's straightened out) I freely admit I have no Entry Express "pelts"....feel free to look. I'm a gun dog trainer, who has little time for or interest in chasing ribbons because my weekends are very full either with clients or seminars. I spend an awful lot of time fixing problem dogs, many of those for people who do compete in tests and trials, and line manners is the biggest issue I deal with for them.

    Your inference that I (or anyone else) am automatically unqualified to give advice because I don't have a list of "pelts" is insulting and just plain rude.

    Lunch time is over....back out to work some dogs until dark (which I am obviously unqualified to do.)
    My Uncle and his friend grew up stealing his friends Dad's crop duster and joy riding. When he was wealthy enough to own a couple airplanes he had gotten his IFR and Multi-engine ratings. Flew a lot of emergency parts to Alaska in bad weather.

    While he was probably a pretty good pilot in his 20's, I wouldn't have flown with him based upon his credentials. Folks can look him up on the FAA webpage before hiring him to fly equipment or persons. EE is not a tell all yet, it provides something as a decent reference. Sharon, you own a business which has been around for a while and that speaks for itself. You're a Professional trainer. The average Joe like me is not and if I give some advice(which I don't often do) folks can and do look on EE. Heck, sponsors of the website do it! LOL!!! now that there's funny stuff!

  4. #164
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    Wow. Really? Your only criteria for someone having acceptable knowledge is Entry Express?

    Did it occur to you that just maybe someone who is starting out and has not got the "pelts" you seem to desire, may have run into a training problem, found a solution with the help of a pro or two and wants to tell people how he is working through it?

    As one of the people who has given Roadkill advice (which is, by the way, working *very* well for him so far, and he knows he needs to not run tests until it's straightened out) I freely admit I have no Entry Express "pelts"....feel free to look. I'm a gun dog trainer, who has little time for or interest in chasing ribbons because my weekends are very full either with clients or seminars. I spend an awful lot of time fixing problem dogs, many of those for people who do compete in tests and trials, and line manners is the biggest issue I deal with for them.

    Your inference that I (or anyone else) am automatically unqualified to give advice because I don't have a list of "pelts" is insulting and just plain rude.

    Lunch time is over....back out to work some dogs until dark (which I am obviously unqualified to do.)
    Although my experience is limited, I think I'm with you, Sharon. I have very little interest in competing. I have had my dogs to pick up dove for me when I hunt, (and I hunt as much as time will allow) and to lay at my feet when I'm not hunting. If I have time to be in the field and I could be competing or hunting, I'll be hunting. I have other things I'd rather do on weekends during off season and as a photographer, I work many weekends. Just because one doesn't play the games, doesn't mean one has nothing to offer.

    I'll add that although no peanut, and as one who enjoys POTUS, I don't particularly enjoy uncivil behavior.
    Last edited by HPL; 07-10-2013 at 01:11 PM.
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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Although my experience is limited, I think I'm with you, Sharon. I have very little interest in competing. I have had my dogs to pick up dove for me when I hunt, (and I hunt as much as time will allow) and to lay at my feet when I'm not hunting. If I have time to be in the field and I could be competing or hunting, I'll be hunting. I have other things I'd rather do on weekends during off season and as a photographer, I work many weekends. Just because one doesn't play the games, doesn't mean one has nothing to offer.
    This is not about EE... It's about an OP who must be miserable and is doing her best to make others that way as well , plain and simple.
    Bill Davis

  6. #166
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    Yes, one must remember... Competition sets a bar standard. If you never compete, how can you fully assess how high your own bar is set?

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    Wow. Really? Your only criteria for someone having acceptable knowledge is Entry Express?

    Did it occur to you that just maybe someone who is starting out and has not got the "pelts" you seem to desire, may have run into a training problem, found a solution with the help of a pro or two and wants to tell people how he is working through it?

    As one of the people who has given Roadkill advice (which is, by the way, working *very* well for him so far, and he knows he needs to not run tests until it's straightened out) I freely admit I have no Entry Express "pelts"....feel free to look. I'm a gun dog trainer, who has little time for or interest in chasing ribbons because my weekends are very full either with clients or seminars. I spend an awful lot of time fixing problem dogs, many of those for people who do compete in tests and trials, and line manners is the biggest issue I deal with for them.

    Your inference that I (or anyone else) am automatically unqualified to give advice because I don't have a list of "pelts" is insulting and just plain rude.

    Lunch time is over....back out to work some dogs until dark (which I am obviously unqualified to do.)
    Hi Sharon, and all.

    I don't write to defend smvilldvm, I'm sure he's a big boy and can defend himself. But I do feel like I need to defend myself (and sort of affirm/repeat Mr. Happy) to an extent.

    You use your real name. Your posts demonstrate dog knowledge based on experience. Your interaction with those long-time posters with "pelts" (not my term, don't really care for it) clearly mark you as a peer. A quick look here http://www.redbranchkennels.net/index.htm provides a good deal of information. If I've looked you up on EE, it was only out of curiosity, but I don't remember. You are transparent. I trust you, pelts or not. If you had training advice for a problem I was having, I would read your posts and think about them seriously. And then do what I felt best, because, um, it's my dog.

    Stan/Roadkill has put a good deal of himself and his experience into those 10,000 posts (which is just bizarre to me, but...). I've never felt the need to EE him. His posts are where his "vetting" on training happens to be. If I had a noisy dog, I would read his posts and think about them seriously. And then do what I felt best, because it's my dog. The buck stops with me.

    If Labadabadoo2013 suddenly appears with copious amounts of training advice and doesn't include a full name, but includes his dog's registered name or claims to have a kennel name or whatever, I might play detective and use my friends Google and EE along the way. I don't want to dismiss Labadawhoever because I don't recognize him--that would be a waste. I don't want to take his advice wholesale, because that would be stupid.

    I don't think the whole EE stalking thing is a big deal. A person has to take some responsibility for figuring out who she trusts and why--because it's her dog, not the internet's or RTF's or Sharon Potter's or Stan's or smillerdvm's...

    Just my reasoning, felt I needed to share it. You know, I drive up 39 every year or two on the way to beautiful Bayfield, and I'm always hopeful I'll have a chance to meet and/or train with a real-life internet sensation.
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  8. #168
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    There is no reason that discussion on RTF cannot be civil, regardless of the qualifications of the poster.

    Saying that people were chased away from RTF because they were denied the freedom to engage in crude, personal attacks makes no sense at all.
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  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    There is no reason that discussion on RTF cannot be civil, regardless of the qualifications of the poster.

    Saying that people were chased away from RTF because they were denied the freedom to engage in crude, personal attacks makes no sense at all.

    Ted, You're kind of the "pot calling the kettle black" in this type of conversation. For much of your comments would give no credit to anyone who was less than a National Qualifier.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by smillerdvm View Post
    I referred to people offering up advice and solutions that may not be correct and observed that research indicated to me that some of those internet experts that seem to be taking over RTF don't have a stellar performance record on EE. You for example have nearly 10,000 posts and appear to have somewhat of a protected status on RTF. Those factors can tend to make others reticent to call you out. That in turn can give new trainers a feeling of confidence in your viewpoints; particularly when they go unchallenged

    I pointed out that I believe those who use and accept RTF as a training resource may not have been well served by the peanutty attitude that is being encouraged here. I feel that in the freer wheeling RTF of old that some of the more experienced who no longer post due to disinterest, not liking the new culture, or being banned may have felt more comfortable about calling you out and having a freer dialogue to give opposing viewpoints for the lesser experienced to draw from

    You have let the cat out of the bag that you are one of the ones I referred to as Muddling. I don't mean to offend your sensibilities. However if it comes to protecting the sensibilities of thin skinned posters or protecting the newer trainers who use RTF from getting unopposed bad advice, I would think the forum would be better served to get the whole unvarnished truth.
    Sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on what's good, solid, sound advice vs. the bad.

    You should come aboard more often and offer up some help for some of these folks who are getting a "crappy" Rx.
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