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Thread: Answer from AKC on votes to eliminate layout blinds.

  1. #21
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HNTFSH View Post
    Look at the bright side. Eliminating lay-outs means clubs won't have to limit master entries to 30 to get a test done in 2 days.
    I think the rule pertains to field trials and not hunt tests

  2. #22
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trog View Post
    All of our workers are club volunteers - sorry it is still hard to ask one of them to spend time in a layout blind
    we seldom use any paid workers at the Madison Retriever club or the Wisconsin Amateur Field Trial Club
    No club is or would be required to make layout blinds available, my club does but I have judged where the club specifically told me no layout blinds. It is a matter of choice, why limit the choices of others?

  3. #23
    Senior Member J. Walker's Avatar
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    Honestly, I'm glad to see layout blinds banned. This takes something off the table that is bird boys having heat strokes waiting to happen, let alone the risk of injury to dogs plowing into one at full speed as they burst through the cover. Using them for hunting in the winter where a dog is sent from beside one is a completely different thing as far as usage and safety. It's bad enough that I've seen judges have holding blinds set up to " wrap up" the bird boys on 80+ degree days and think nothing about it as the bird boys sit out and bake all day with virtually no air circulation.
    "When a good trainer stops learning about dogs, he stops being a good trainer." the late Gene Hill

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  4. #24
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    EXACTLY, WALT -

    Conditions and Common sense. I have not "wrapped" poppers/bird boys "in canvass" .. my approach has been to place the canvass on the ground behind a natural terrain feature such as a rise/depression, large dowed tree, irregation check, standing cover whatever.

    The bird boys/poppers lay on top of the canvass.

    The object is to minimize/prevent savvy trainers/handlers from "lining" dogs to blinds, brushed or otherwise.

    AKC's general language "shall not lay on the ground" impact's this approach/option & is an area that needs clarification for the integrity of marking ... not lining tests ... that today separates the "chaf from the wheat".

    The option should be available where, when & if cover and terrain features destroy effective bird placement and 'marking tests' reflecting natural hunting conditions ... not 400 - 450 yard falls thru varied cover in excessive weather conditions of heat & hunidity.

    There's a time & place for most tests ... even an occasional "long fall" that simulates a "sailor" shot by a hunting companion, as the book says, may be appropriate. But 2 & 3 falls 400-450 yards ... "as the crow flies"... places dogs in jeopardy more so than a "disappearing gun station" properly used. These are lining tests ... not marking tests!

    This unfortunate change needs to be rethought. Clear, practical, language, Common Sense conditions put in place so as to preserve a judge's options.

    Bill Connor
    Last edited by canuckkiller; 07-09-2013 at 09:01 AM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Charles C.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walt8@cox.net View Post
    Why would you want to use a layout blind in cover? The only practical use is in places where there is no cover, no place to put a holding blind to effectively hide a retired gun. If weather conditions would make it dangerous, you shouldn't need a rule to not use one, just common sense. As you just said, in bad conditions even a holding blind could be dangerous.
    I've only run one test with a layout retired. It was incredible how many dogs just couldn't mark that bird. There were no safety issues, and nobody got heat stroke. And most of the dogs simply couldn't do that mark.
    Walt
    What you said. I was pretty stunned when my club voted for this rule.

  6. #26
    Senior Member MikeBoley's Avatar
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    Trog you need to come see the grounds (exceptional they are) that Dr Ed has secured. You have pastures of several hundred acres with no tree or brush. Gently rolling terrain. Its the prairrie. To put a holding blind concealed or otherwise is not effective. Dont pass judgement until you have walked in someones shoes. The rule is knee jerk reaction. We have a far greater chance of getting a worker hurt with improper use of poppers that getting run over in a layout blind. I have throw a layout blind bird. Had a dog go over the blind. The dog and I both were unscathed.
    'I make my practices real hard because if a player is a quitter, I want him to quit in practice, not in a game.' - Bear Bryant / Alabama

  7. #27
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    The layout blind is a tool. It can be used properly - or improperly
    The issue is that the RAC and AKC elected to remove the tool from the judge's discretion
    This has been the direction of the RAC and AKC - to remove discretion from the judges

    And unfortunately, the clubs have not stood up against the removal of discretion

    Ted
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  8. #28
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    The layout blind is a tool. It can be used properly - or improperly
    The issue is that the RAC and AKC elected to remove the tool from the judge's discretion
    This has been the direction of the RAC and AKC - to remove discretion from the judges

    And unfortunately, the clubs have not stood up against the removal of discretion

    Ted
    That's what they say... But they have not provided an accounting of the votes, so who really knows?
    Bill Davis

  9. #29
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    Hi Dr. Ed,

    When you get a chance check your mailbox.

    Rich
    Official Launcher of the 2005, 2006,2007,2008,2009 & 2010 HRC Fall & Spring Grand!

  10. #30
    Member swamprat II's Avatar
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    Layout blinds can still be used in AKC Hunt Test. I was told that by Mr. Jerry Mann himself or at least it came from his email address.
    Keep the shotgun barrel warm & the dog's feet wet. www.stricklandskennels.com

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