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Dud from good breeding?

10K views 33 replies 28 participants last post by  zsimp07 
#1 ·
Just as the title says. Ever get a pup out of a fantastic litter that just did not have it? Now I am sure there are plenty that do not have what it takes to run trials and such. But how about a pup that just did not have the retrieving desire to even end up in the duck blind? Just was sitting here reading up on the forum and this question popped into my head.
 
#2 ·
So hard to say, don't you think? It's a game of statistics. The pro I know and have worked with for quite a few years... when she washes a dog out... it's usually one from show lines (no... not trying to start anything. I'm just sayin'...) or from an indifferent (so-called "backyard") breeding. Usually even dogs who've been bred deliberately by hunters (my good hunting dog to your good bitch) she'll usually take through transition and have adequate results (that is to say, the hunters come back with their next dogs and send their friends to her.) I've known her to wash out well bred dogs (i.e., titled sire/dams with FT titled progenitors 2 generations back or so) but almost always it's been because the owners messed them up and then wouldn't participate in the cure.
 
#4 ·
3 NC's, 2 FC-AFC in the 1st 6 dogs - it happens in the best of breedings -
 
#5 ·
I understand the odds of having a dog not make the grade to make it to that level in FT/HT. Can the average guy pretty much expect a decent hunting dog(with the proper training of course) as long as he is getting a pup with alot of FC in his background. I would suspect the odds are pretty high.
 
#10 ·
Ouch!

Lonnie Spann
 
#11 ·
I understand the odds of having a dog not make the grade to make it to that level in FT/HT. Can the average guy pretty much expect a decent hunting dog(with the proper training of course) as long as he is getting a pup with alot of FC in his background. I would suspect the odds are pretty high
Your odds of getting a nice hunting dog are excellent,,,but sometimes the mix of genes produces a pet or less than pet. I have been privy to a few of these over the years. One was a well known litter with multiple fc's in it. and others were just really nice breedings where one of the pups lacked drive or didn't have a conducive temperament for training

Pete
 
#12 ·
Not to hijack the thread....
But how many have gotten dogs out of Great breedings that produced too much dog for you or the sport you are playing.

Too much vocalization to sit in a duck blind?
Too animated ?
Dog bred too hot to keep his marbles about them at a trial or test. I have a unbelievable marking dog that can't pick up the go bird in the first series!

This is just as disappointing as a dog with no go!
 
#19 · (Edited)
You and I think very much alike...somewhere in between the two variables lies the perfect animal
 
#14 ·
When a well bred dog is not making it as a gundog, the reason is far more likely to lie with the trainer and/or training methods than with the dog. Many trainers and programs are not flexible enough to accommodate the dogs that don't fit the "pattern". I think it is a bit naïve to always blame the dog for failures. The trainer is in complete control of the dog's total environment. The dog is in control of nothing.
 
#15 ·
I don't think it is always the training or methods. We have washed out a couple that multiple trainers have had and the dog just lacked the work ethic to want to play the game. Two of them that come to mind were FC AFC X QAA bred. Some breeding just don't mix as well and/or some breedings produce great of one sex but not so much the other.
 
#16 ·
I have a well bred black male that washed out for FT but well suited for HT. He went through some tender pad issues from spinning in the kennel but that's been fixed for awhile now. It seams like his balls have dropped all of the sudden because his bark is getting deeper and he's getting more fired up than ever, even in the heat. Kicking up dirt in my face, retrieving with attitude, just a different dog. Maybe a late bloomer, who knows, but it sure is exciting to see!
 
#17 ·
I think late bloomer could happen more often than not. I purcahsed a female at two years of age the owner stated she didn't hunt and wasn't much of a gun dog. Two duck seasons later and shes freaking a ball of fire when it comes to field work, duck hunting, and so forth. In the back yard she couldn't care less about a bumper or anything
 
#18 ·
Had a very nice female that was sent to very good trainer. would fetch bumpers all day long. Would NOT touch a dead bird. Made my daughter a great pet.
 
#20 ·
Sooo....

Even seen a pair of human parents, both smart, healthy and athletic, with good vision and good hearing, etc., have a kid that was a klutz, or had to wear glasses, or was born deaf, or was mentally disabled? Dogs are no more immune to the random reshuffling of genes or the vagaries of expression of deleterious mutations than are people. A good breeding only increases the odds.

But odds are still odds.
 
#21 ·
Great explanation. Also a dog that a serious field trailer considers a "dud" might be a great dog for a hunt tester or hunter, dud doesn't mean the same thing to everybody, what we might call a FT wash-out can be everything from a QAA dog that doesn't quite have what it takes to be an all age dog, to a dog that totally lacks retrieve desire and everything in between.

John
 
#25 ·
When do you think a guy could make the assumption he has gotten nothing more than a pet? As you can maybe tell, I am that guy. Pup is showing little desire and I am worrying. Hopefully needlessly but still..... He is still very young but my last pup had all kinds of go, lived to retrieve. And I think that is what has me wondering.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I have a pup sired by NAFC X QAA did not retrieve balls, bumpers nuthin...til he was 6 months old. Doing derby marks and running SH at 18 months

LOL OH I am post #10 referred too.....:D
 
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