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Thread: Lining Issues

  1. #21
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    What do experienced people think about sight blinds to help? Get a dead bird, stand at the line with dog at heel and walk 120 yards with dog to plant blind. Walk straight back to line. Dog looks out knowing there's a bird. Say dead bird, send with hand, dog nails it. If you did about 75 of these, do you experienced people think this would build confidence in the dog to line up for blinds and blind drills?

    This is what really helped my dog after having bugging and popping on beginning pattern blinds. We transitioned to blind drills this way, too. I would walk her out and set the blind, return to the line and have gunner throw mark, get mark, the send for blind. Still had to cast to blind after caving to gunner suction - but that's the point.

    Using sight blinds (no bucket or marker, just walking do out to see where it's planted) was what saved me since I don't use an ecollar. She now does cold blinds with a lot of confidence and speed. But that might just be us. We are following TRT, too.

    Good luck,
    A fellow monkey

  2. #22
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn White View Post
    I had a bugging problem and didn't really realize it ( kinda). I was trying to get that rock solid 100% "locked on " look. I would fiddle fart around at the line and it was only building anxiety for her.
    Now with the help of a pro figuring this out ( he had no problems lining her up) .we come to the line, I don't hurry for say, but I don't jack around either. No more " here,dead bird,no heal ,dead bird " and so on, I get her close, drop my hand and send.
    She was never a popper, but if I get a bad initial line (say 30 ft) ,I recall ,resend.
    This has helped her confidence of making a decision to trust me.
    I believe trying to demand perfection on the line while running a lot of pattern blinds was the cause of most of our blind issues,including my frustration and her anxiety. ( bugging) . I dug a hole that I'm still filling back in 1 blind at a time, over a year later.

    The above isn't necessarily advise just food for thought.

    The advise Bridget gave is the same method I was taught to deal with no- goes.
    So true,DEFINITELY do not look for perfect lining. If you are on pattern blinds, get a look that is somewhere close and kick him off, then handle. Alot of new handlers think that early blinds demand perfection and it is jut the opposite, allow latitude and build trust by handling him
    BB
    Sight To Sea Labradors
    Southern Cross at Sight to Sea SH "Crosby" (by NAFC FC AFC Cody Cut a Lean Grade)
    Tealwood's Willing at Sight to Sea JH ( by CH I am Able)
    Briarglen's Running on Faith JH (by FC Fish River's Out of the Park)
    Glendair's Come Home to the Sea ( By Ch Topform's Edward MH, QAA)
    Sight To Sea's Take Aim SH (by Sight to Sea's Southern Comfort SH )Aug 23 2003-Feb 2013 Go get em , Man!

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget Bodine View Post
    Renee Maybe I am wrong , but assumed that he is on T, because of the "been to the back pile 1000 times" comment....If he is not on the T , and is on Patterns there is def some back up FTP work to do on the T . Pattern blinds should not be ugly, they should be building confidence.....
    OP would you mind clarifying?
    My use of the word "pattern" blind may have been misleading. We started pattern blinds (started teaching different legs of 3 legged with sight blinds) before we went backwards. We skipped a little ahead on land since the water was frozen or cold here until late May and that is when the swim-by was started but not completed due to the "bugging". Most of what I have been doing lately are sight blinds without a T pattern, just a back pile.

    He handles very nice from the front sit and is 100% on FTP in front sit. Once at my side the bugging starts, sometimes on the first bird, sometimes after a few runs. Same goes for the water. Several commented on the marks. He is a great marker and has good memory so I have not run as many marks as I would normally run while concentrating on the handling issues, although he always gets a fun bumper at the end of the session.

    Maybe a short break from handling with lots of marks will help? Will also use more live birds, fresh kills or shot fliers. Funny that when I used three frozen ducks mixed in the pile he did well focusing and taking a line, I sent him a fourth time since I had bumpers left in the pile and he decided to hunt for a duck instead of even thinking about picking up a bumper!
    Erik B.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetrieverNation View Post
    My use of the word "pattern" blind may have been misleading. We started pattern blinds (started teaching different legs of 3 legged with sight blinds) before we went backwards. We skipped a little ahead on land since the water was frozen or cold here until late May and that is when the swim-by was started but not completed due to the "bugging". Most of what I have been doing lately are sight blinds without a T pattern, just a back pile.

    He handles very nice from the front sit and is 100% on FTP in front sit. Once at my side the bugging starts, sometimes on the first bird, sometimes after a few runs. Same goes for the water. Several commented on the marks. He is a great marker and has good memory so I have not run as many marks as I would normally run while concentrating on the handling issues, although he always gets a fun bumper at the end of the session.

    Maybe a short break from handling with lots of marks will help? Will also use more live birds, fresh kills or shot fliers. Funny that when I used three frozen ducks mixed in the pile he did well focusing and taking a line, I sent him a fourth time since I had bumpers left in the pile and he decided to hunt for a duck instead of even thinking about picking up a bumper!
    No not a short break! Do both marks and blinds on same day. Keep your training sessions up beat. and in balance so his attitude remains good.
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    Erik feel free to call me , this is very hard to decipher online in bits and pieces. 570-378-3357 I am thinking that pressure , whether from the collar , or from no-ing him has created the lack of confidence. Would really like to talk about it with you.
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    Sight To Sea Labradors
    Southern Cross at Sight to Sea SH "Crosby" (by NAFC FC AFC Cody Cut a Lean Grade)
    Tealwood's Willing at Sight to Sea JH ( by CH I am Able)
    Briarglen's Running on Faith JH (by FC Fish River's Out of the Park)
    Glendair's Come Home to the Sea ( By Ch Topform's Edward MH, QAA)
    Sight To Sea's Take Aim SH (by Sight to Sea's Southern Comfort SH )Aug 23 2003-Feb 2013 Go get em , Man!

    Manager of www.DeCoverlykennels.com

  6. #26
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    No not a short break! Do both marks and blinds on same day. Keep your training sessions up beat. and in balance so his attitude remains good.
    The first thing I thought when I read the first post is what a lot of other's thought, that being this trainer is out of balance, really focusing on drill work at the expense of the fun field work. Yard work is drudgery to most dogs and it is very important to recognize that point where a dog is loosing interest, finish on a positive and not dig yourself into a hole where it becomes a battle that you have to win. Build attitude with fun stuff, marks and birds, build discipline with yard work, but read the dog and build toward a positive finish in training that day. Do the yard work first in the cool of the morning, do just enough to make progress, then quit and move to the field. Build up an expectation that if the dog keeps his focus and does well in the yard, fun stuff is right around the corner.

    John

  7. #27
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    I hate to agree with Jen but my first thought was to try some sight blinds and see if making the destination very clear would get the dog to do the appropriate behavior. Getting it started without any collar pressure then adding it back when the destinations are clearly understood and visible to the dog.

    Seems like something may have been missed in the transition from the visible pile to the invisible pattern blind?

    He could be bugging for a bunch of reasons. Somewhere in there you have to find the reason in order to remove it.
    Darrin Greene

  8. #28
    Senior Member PalouseDogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetrieverNation View Post

    Start with a cage containing fivemonkeys. ETC...

    New Monkey Regards!
    Hehehe. Too funny. Too true, sometimes.

    Total noob, here too. Was/am also struggling to develop handling and transition to cold blinds without destroying motivation. Saw a suggestion on another thread to do lots of short (30-70 yd) cold blinds mixed with the occasional long walk-up blind to improve lining and keep attitude. I think the suggestion on that thread was a ratio of about 9 short cold to 1 long walk-up. In practice, my short cold blinds are sometimes as short as 10 or 20 yards if there's a factor we're working on, like holding a line crossing a road.

    I gave that a try and it seems to really be helping with attitude and lining. She's not all that great about taking the right cast if she gets off line, however, so I'm mixing it up with low-pressure, short casting sessions.

    A caveat, though, with regards to Jennifer's suggestion about walking out to the blind: A few months ago, I realized that my girl was following my scent out to blinds. I had inadvertently taught her that blinds meant to find my scent and follow it to the bird. I wouldn't have believed a dog could follow a scent at a lope with head high, but she sure can. Now, I take a very long roundabout walk to the back side of blind that is downwind of the line. Am just starting to do more crosswind blinds, but am very careful to not walk directly to the blind.

    No pelts here, so advice is worth the electrons it's printed on.
    Kelly Cassidy (person)

    HR Maple Cassidy CDX JH RE (golden retriever)
    Alder Cassidy CDX RE (standard poodle chipmunk chaser)
    plus whacked-out weird Burka (elderly mix-breed rescue girl)

  9. #29
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    Thanks for the help and suggestions everyone. I will post on my progress as soon as I get some.
    Erik B.

  10. #30
    Senior Member yellow machine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn White View Post
    I had a bugging problem and didn't really realize it ( kinda). I was trying to get that rock solid 100% "locked on " look. I would fiddle fart around at the line and it was only building anxiety for her.
    Now with the help of a pro figuring this out ( he had no problems lining her up) .we come to the line, I don't hurry for say, but I don't jack around either. No more " here,dead bird,no heal ,dead bird " and so on, I get her close, drop my hand and send.
    She was never a popper, but if I get a bad initial line (say 30 ft) ,I recall ,resend.
    This has helped her confidence of making a decision to trust me.
    I believe trying to demand perfection on the line while running a lot of pattern blinds was the cause of most of our blind issues,including my frustration and her anxiety. ( bugging) . I dug a hole that I'm still filling back in 1 blind at a time, over a year later.

    The above isn't necessarily advise just food for thought.

    The advise Bridget gave is the same method I was taught to deal with no- goes.
    Confidience is huge for dogs to learn. Good post Shawn.
    A cold nose feels good on a hot day.....
    Majestic Oaks Liberty Belle JH

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