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Thread: Lining Issues

  1. #41
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
    I truly believe that most of what has been said is true (Borden), but that is not an excuses for bugging off the line. I would go in a slightly different way. I would bring him back in the yard and use some in direct pressure. I would teach him to NO off piles. I would set up three piles a back pile at 40 yards and two side piles at 20 yards. I would send to each piles ( with no pressure ) Then I would line him on a pile, stick him and say NO, move to another pile and send. I would do this randomly until he is no longer bugging off the line. Then go back to the field and see how it worked. Just a thought.

    Keith
    This is, to my mind, counterintuitive. Seems to me it would risk making a dog that gets bored after working for a while learn to dread working at all.

    Is this something you have seen? How did the dog respond, and do you have an idea of why he responded this way?
    Last edited by luvalab; 07-10-2013 at 07:51 PM.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    To the OP--there might be 2 general ways to approach your dog's bugging. You've been told both, both might be "right." Both aim to get you past this and doing new stuff fast.

    In my words--

    One way is the heel-nick-heel or back-nick-back school--but you need to be reading your dog right and you need good timing, so maybe you can widen your training group and get some fresh eyes looking at the situation, or maybe call a pro that gives lessons. Pressure near your side has its risks.

    The other is to just think, the dog knows there's a bunch of boring bumpers there and he is letting me know it's time to move on. You might be creating a hole--or you might just be saying "Alright, buddy, I know you're bored and I think you understand pressure--let's move on and find the fun."

    that's the best I've got--take it for what it's worth ( )
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  3. #43
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvalab View Post
    This is, to my mind, counterintuitive. Seems to me it would risk making a dog that gets bored after working for a while learn to dread working at all.

    Is this something you have seen? How did the dog respond, and do you have an idea of why he responded this way?
    Just another arm chair QB, Has nothing new to contribute just licking up the crumbs of the others.

    Keith

    I have to go and feed my kennel. I you ask in a respectful manor, I will answer your question.
    Last edited by truthseeker; 07-10-2013 at 10:10 PM. Reason: more

  4. #44
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
    Just another arm chair QB, Has nothing new to contribute just licking up the crumbs of the others.

    Keith
    I was actually trying to figure out if what you were saying was valid or useful. I have never seen this.

    Pardon me for trying to be polite. Sometimes it gets in the way of communicating.

    Are you interested in engaging in a civil conversation about what you have contributed?
    Last edited by luvalab; 07-10-2013 at 10:19 PM.
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  5. #45
    Senior Member luvalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
    Just another arm chair QB, Has nothing new to contribute just licking up the crumbs of the others.

    Keith

    I have to go and feed my kennel. I you ask in a respectful manor, I will answer your question.
    You know what?

    Never mind. Screw it. I don't know who you are, you don't use your name, and you were too dense to see that I was trying to be polite and so rude that your first instinct was to call me names and insult me.

    And then your second thought was to condescend.

    you could be Mike Lardy himself and I wouldn't trust a dog with you and I wouldn't take advice from you.

    I will ask a real person I train with.
    Last edited by luvalab; 07-10-2013 at 10:31 PM.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    This is, to my mind, counterintuitive. Seems to me it would risk making a dog that gets bored after working for a while learn to dread working at all.

    This is being polite LOL

    OK fine

  7. #47
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetrieverNation View Post
    My 15 month old pup has been stuck in transition lining for way too long. We are primarily following TRT. He knows the drills and the concepts since we have been doing them since before the snow melted in February. He has probably gone to the back pile over 1000 times since we started.

    The problem I am having is the dog decides to pretend he has forgotten all that has been taught about handling, such as; about half way into a pile of a dozen bumpers lining a pattern blind he will decide not to cue to the "line" command and will instead look at me rather than looking out into the field or respond in any way to taking a line (and this is after he has successfully taken the cue and lined the blind with good body position and focus) and he knows that bumpers remain at the pile.

    I have just completed going backwards all the way to three handed casting and then working back up through stick to pile and FTP. I believe we have successfully completed FF and have only revisited briefly because he does very well with FF, walking fetch and with a good attitude.

    After this last round of going all the way back to basics, he will still randomly do the look at me instead of take the line routine and play dumb. If I send him in this state he will immediately pop, then bark when cast, take poor casts and all the while playing like he has never done this work before. I recently used frozen ducks and it seemed to help him focus since he lined all three of them but my suspicions are that I need to fix this problem for bumpers or dokkens since he obviously prefers the ducks.

    I would like to hear if anyone has any good advice or has dealt with this problem in the past. My next step without any advice would be to only work with frozen or fresh kill birds exclusively until his performance is flawless. Sorry for the long post and if I need to post a video to help with a constructive response, I can do so.
    I my opinion, there is three thing that can cause a dog to bug. 1) confusion 2) incorrect collar pressure 3) the bond between the handler and their dog ( No respect)

    The drill I mentioned is my post will help all three.

    First, by taking them out of the field and putting on something they should already know will help number 1

    Second, by using the stick instead of the collar will solve number two

    Third, by adding the command NO you are not trying to fix something that you have been fighting them over. Instead you will teach them something new, which should refocus the dog on task.

    I have used this drill on break out training for some time. It should take only a few session to get the dog back on track.

    Keith

  8. #48
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvalab View Post
    To the OP--there might be 2 general ways to approach your dog's bugging. You've been told both, both might be "right." Both aim to get you past this and doing new stuff fast.

    In my words--

    One way is the heel-nick-heel or back-nick-back school--but you need to be reading your dog right and you need good timing, so maybe you can widen your training group and get some fresh eyes looking at the situation, or maybe call a pro that gives lessons. Pressure near your side has its risks.

    The other is to just think, the dog knows there's a bunch of boring bumpers there and he is letting me know it's time to move on. You might be creating a hole--or you might just be saying "Alright, buddy, I know you're bored and I think you understand pressure--let's move on and find the fun."

    that's the best I've got--take it for what it's worth ( )
    this is what I told him on the phone, that it is a great big juggling act and to figure out if the dog is jerking him around .
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  9. #49
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetrieverNation View Post
    Well now I feel really dumb. This entire time I have been making the dog watch the videos! I will start to study them and let you know how I progress Renee.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    Erik My dogs love watching the DVDs. Not sure how much they take in or I do for that matter unless I see it in action. Your best bet is after reading these 5 pages of how to attack your problem with your dog is to seek out some knowledgeable help from someone or a pro. Take a day and see if you can train with them. Ask questions and listen! Good luck!
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  10. #50
    Senior Member LESTER LANGLEY's Avatar
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    If you are still having trouble or have questions, please call me. 318 355 7736. I'm quite familiar with the program. A slight misunderstanding may have you thinking you have a problem that isn't really there. This is hard to sort out online, but I'd be glad to discuss it with you over the phone. My gut tells me that you don't have nearly the problem you think you do.

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