The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 57

Thread: Master tests

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Oakdale,ct.
    Posts
    2,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Littlejohn View Post
    Hunting the prairie or marsh, I'll wade out and pick up the decoy-distance birds if I have to. I want a dog for deep water, long cripples or sailers.

    I can tell you for a fact that long "real hunting" retrieves do occur.

    The most impressive retrieve any of my dogs has ever been credited with (by others) was about 4 years ago on a Kansas pheasant hunt. We were (finally!) blocking on the long tip of a section corner and one of the walkers shot a rooster that sailed downhill back towards the middle of the field; his German shorthair was hunting the wrong direction and doesn't run blinds. My guy had marked it. Rolled him out there and he stepped on it. Easily 400 yds. That guy still talks about that retrieve.
    400 Yards in the ocean is a horse of a different color. The dog could get run over by a lobster or commercial fishing boat and the water is really cold any time after the middle of November. I don't want to stand on the beach and watch my dog die because I was too lazy to launch a boat. They don't have to prove themselves to me or my partners. When I was less experienced I sent dogs on retrieves that I shouldn't have, and I'm not proud of it, BUT I learned my lesson.

    My dogs sometimes get long retrieves hunting geese in cornfields. That's not a problem.-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  2. #22
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NW IL
    Posts
    2,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    ...Lets keep the master tests so that they actually are realistic to hunting scenarios....
    Let me ask you a serious question. Does the wooden toy gun make a Master test more realistic?

    Hunt tests don't need to be realistic.

    They don't need to be realistic hunts, in order to be real tests.
    And yes, they DO need to be real tests.

    When you try to make something that isn't real, seem like it's real, you only succeed in making it more fake.

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Oakdale,ct.
    Posts
    2,887

    Default

    Do any of you guys besides /Paul and me judge Master tests?

    I ask because with a 60 dog Master, a couple of 150 yard marks and/or Blinds is definitely going to affect the time management aspect of the test. Well placed marks and blinds under 100 yards will answer all the questions you should be asking as a Hunt Test judge. Quality always trumps distance, in my experience. I don't want to dumb down the final series because we chewed up too much time in the first two.-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  4. #24
    Senior Member FOM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Falcon, CO
    Posts
    9,173

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Let me ask you a serious question. Does the wooden toy gun make a Master test more realistic?
    Hahahahaha - true story, at our HT this past year I had a handler's gun to be used at Master - it was a actual single shot shotgun that had a bad firing pin and a designated handler's gun for the club (spray painted orange on the stock). Anywho, I was getting the handler's gun when a handler pulled out a wooden gun toy - it was decided we should use it cause it was way lighter than a real gun, blah, blah, blah...I couldn't of cared less, but I did find it humorous! I also always found the "scenarios" briefing to be funny...yeah, right, we just happened to walk up and shoot, blah, blah, blah - just throw the marks so my dog can pick them up!

    HT are far from being realistic...
    "You can't eat a pig whole, but you can eat a whole pig." - Joe S.

    Proudly Owned By:
    MHR HR Flash Of Mischief SH CD CGC - Flash (10/15/98 - 10/8/12)
    Lightning Fast Quack Attacker*** - Bullet
    Gotta Heart Of A Warrior - Ranger (12/26/07 - 8/10/2010)
    SML's Gettin' Sexy With It*** - Tango
    FOM's Raising a Ruckus in the Rockies - Riot

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Gloucester,Va
    Posts
    1,295

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    I have witnessed more than a few MH titled dogs whose "skill sets" degraded exponentially in a hunting environment. A hunt test degree does not a hunting dog make. Today's hunt tests are a nearly sterile environment. Technical ponds do not duplicate or even resemble conditions on Chesapeake bay, Great Bay, Long Island sound or Cape Cod Bay, especially on the type of day when divers and seaducks are on the move. All of my dogs have had the alphabet soup of multiple Hunt Test titles and 2 of them were QAA. All needed a couple seasons of the real thing to become proficient waterfowl dogs.

    And, to address the 200 yard big water retrieve of a diver, I'm firing up the boat. The fact that it is that far out means it more than likely is a cripple. I don't want to watch my dog swim around chasing a bird for 20 minutes that has an excellent chance of getting away.

    I'm an 8 point Master judge and I have never set up a 150 yard mark in a Master test. It isn't neccessary.-Paul
    Enjoyed your post Paul.

    After huntin' on the Chesapeake for over 30yrs., I truely believe it's those scenarios you've eluded to on the Bay that lets' ya' know how well your dog truely marks birds, and how much drive he's really got.
    Dawgs are like Savings Accounts-
    You only get out of 'em what you put into 'em.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,046

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    Do any of you guys besides /Paul and me judge Master tests?

    I ask because with a 60 dog Master, a couple of 150 yard marks and/or Blinds is definitely going to affect the time management aspect of the test. Well placed marks and blinds under 100 yards will answer all the questions you should be asking as a Hunt Test judge. Quality always trumps distance, in my experience. I don't want to dumb down the final series because we chewed up too much time in the first two.-Paul
    Bingo.
    Of course that assumes you have good cover/terrain to work with and not just a golf fairway. As for the long mark that is not untypical in hunting, the difference is that pup usually gets to watch that sailing bird from shooting range all the way to the north 40. Not just tossed in the air for a couple of seconds at 200 + yds. Dogs have to see a bird to mark it. I don't mind long marks as long as pup has a chance to see 'em. But Paul is spot on. They aren't needed if a judge knows how to use available factors to properly test the dogs. And you don't learn that at a seminar.

  7. #27
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NW IL
    Posts
    2,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    Do any of you guys besides /Paul and me judge Master tests?
    I don't.

    And I've never seen a 150 yard mark or blind in a Master test either.
    But, I'd rather see that, than some tricky BS that gets "answers" to questions that don't matter.

    I don't care how "realistic" a test is. I'm not there to make a movie, or play pretend dress-up.
    Hunt tests are REAL tests. They don't need to be made "realistic".

    If a Judge needs 150 yards in order to get REAL answers from a Master mark or blind, I'm fine with that.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Mark Littlejohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Conroe, Tx
    Posts
    1,088

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    400 Yards in the ocean is a horse of a different color. The dog could get run over by a lobster or commercial fishing boat and the water is really cold any time after the middle of November. I don't want to stand on the beach and watch my dog die because I was too lazy to launch a boat. They don't have to prove themselves to me or my partners. When I was less experienced I sent dogs on retrieves that I shouldn't have, and I'm not proud of it, BUT I learned my lesson.

    My dogs sometimes get long retrieves hunting geese in cornfields. That's not a problem.-Paul
    For sure, I'm in the habit of always looking both directions for lobster boats before sending.

    Probably a geographic thing.

  9. #29
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bigfork, Montana
    Posts
    3,475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Littlejohn View Post
    For sure, I'm in the habit of always looking both directions for lobster boats before sending.

    Probably a geographic thing.
    Yep, one of the fun things about this site and a duck boat forum I used to frequent is the huge difference in hunting from region to region. Duck boats are way different from big water sea duck hunts on the Great Lakes, Chesapeake Bay and Puget Sound from what we use in shallow water lakes and river sloughs. Same with training, I shudder when I hear about gators, snakes and weather so hot and humid, even getting your dog wet doesn't cool him off. Those guys probably freak out with our stories of hunting next to a partially frozen river. I understand Paul, I don't have to worry about lobster boats, but rather than risk hypothermia having my dog swim a half mile in 36 degree water, I'll push the boat out of the reeds and go get that long cripple by boat.

  10. #30
    Senior Member labraiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Penna
    Posts
    385

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    Do any of you guys besides /Paul and me judge Master tests?

    I ask because with a 60 dog Master, a couple of 150 yard marks and/or Blinds is definitely going to affect the time management aspect of the test. Well placed marks and blinds under 100 yards will answer all the questions you should be asking as a Hunt Test judge. Quality always trumps distance, in my experience. I don't want to dumb down the final series because we chewed up too much time in the first two.-Paul
    Paul,

    Yes I do judge master, senior and junior. There is noway your going to do a 150 swim with a 60 dog master test. It would kill your time management. If you start with 60 dogs and do a 6 min a dog test. Your still looking at 300 min/ 5 hr series. That doesn't even take in rebirds, and other delays. I have always said good bird placement not distance makes a good test.

    Scott

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •