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Thread: Young dog trainers - when do you consider your swim-by complete?

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    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Default Young dog trainers - when do you consider your swim-by complete?

    You're doing swim by and dog is casting well with bumper in mouth. Not able yet to stand in one spot and direct the whole drill but it's working fine with some handler movement up and down the bank.

    Pup has given a refusal or two to enter water on an over cast and gotten corrected for it. Once corrected, she has auto cast into the water several times. Now, without me saying anything she will retrieve the side piles and immediately re-enter the water without being stopped and cast.

    So, she clearly knows what we want (see water get in).

    She's been forced into, across and back into the water. Direct pressure has been applied to the sit command as has indirect pressure. No adverse or unusual reactions to pressure.

    Are we done yet, in your mind?

    I know my personal answer but curious what the young dog PROS think.

    Clue to my answer is... we did some easy channel blinds today and she did great, handling on the way out and back to stay in the water.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 07-10-2013 at 08:28 PM.
    Darrin Greene

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    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    When they can cast by you, across the pond, over the dike across the other pond, across the dirt road & up the hill with one cast and never think about stopping until you stop them. Then on the way back cast the other direction, cross in front of you, across the pond over the dike across second pond on the other side and up the other hill, one cast, never looking back and never think about stopping. In reality it's probably just when they'll carry the over cast for however long you want, never looking back and never think about stopping, but we got access to 3 ponds, a dirt path and two hills, so we use them

    P.S. take the time to address that auto-casting it will bite you in the buttocks later, not that I'm talking from personal experience or anything
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 07-10-2013 at 08:45 PM.
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    I like to go until I don't have that handler movement. I don't think that either way is wrong but I find that sometimes when moving on to cheating singles the concept is much clearer to the dog when the handler is not moving and he can clearly see where he was, is, and should be. JMO.

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    Senior Member JoeOverby's Avatar
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    I love the auto cast...it tells me the pup understands what I'm asking....but does the pup really understand why?? Honestly, when I can initially send, stop, cast, and receive and NEVER move from that spot than IMO puppy understands what I'm asking. Then its done.
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    Senior Member Matt Weberpal's Avatar
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    I figured I was done when I was able to do swim by in a new "remote location" that's when I figured he generalized the behavior.
    Matt Weberpal


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    Senior Member Scott Shafer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    Clue to my answer is... we did some easy channel blinds today and she did great, handling on the way out and back to stay in the water.
    u have answed ur own ???

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    Senior Member Sabireley's Avatar
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    I like to proof it in a new location by throwing out a bumper and asking for a swimby on the return. I have a long straight dam I have used for a couple of dogs. It may take a little extra work to generalize the behavior in a new location. I also do cast into the water drills and an occaisional swimby as maintenance. Mine seem to get sloppy over time and need a tune up now and then.

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    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shafer View Post
    u have answed ur own ???
    No, my question was what other people think/do with this part of the process. I'm always looking for ways to make my process more efficient. I value others opinion as I go along when I might be going to fast on a particular step.

    I've been moving forward very quickly with this dog, knowing I can always go back and repeat/refine a step if the next one in the process shows a deficiency.

    It seems to be working very well at 14 months but...

    That doesn't mean I'm right. Credible opinions are always valuable and there are a few here.
    Darrin Greene

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    A direct answer; it's never done. It's a lifetime maintenance issue.

    But it's complete when all its components are intact reliably. When you know you can stand at your baseline, knowing your dog will -

    a. Go when sent
    b. Stop when commanded - at least making a reasonable effort to tread in place (this is not nearly as tricky as some suspect)
    c. Take each cast as given to completion, and...
    d. Readily follow the swim-by command each time - again, to completion; not stopping or quitting until released by the handler (I use "okay")

    That gets us out of the swim-by pond, and onward to larger bodies of water to expand on this skill, and to frame it in a real world context for the dog.

    Evan
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    No, my question was what other people think/do with this part of the process. I'm always looking for ways to make my process more efficient. I value others opinion as I go along when I might be going to fast on a particular step.

    I've been moving forward very quickly with this dog, knowing I can always go back and repeat/refine a step if the next one in the process shows a deficiency.

    It seems to be working very well at 14 months but...

    That doesn't mean I'm right. Credible opinions are always valuable and there are a few here.

    I personally want my dogs to carry the cast out the other side and for some distance on land...with out me moving once I give the initial cast...With that said it is to what degree do you want to go?....You are probably at a point you can get by with the dog ...Perfect ,no ...passable ,yes.....As long as the dog will take your cast on the return ,proof it to see if you can move on....As you said you can always drop back if necessary...How important is it to get to point X in so many months ? Is time a driving factor? Is the dog going to be a field trial dog where perfection is going to be required later or a hunting dog where the demands on performance is less demanding..? Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

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