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Thread: Is It Possible For An Amateur To Compete against Pros In Hunt Tests?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mallard Mugger View Post
    That is getting a little carried away and I could forsee a limit to the # of dogs entered per person but of course that will not limit the pro's helpers/workers entering.
    It would if the helper/worker had to run the dogs they signed up, and the Pro couldn't. Not very many pros who will give up master level dogs to helper/workers, too much chance something handler related will go wrong, then client is wondering we he's paying Pro and not the helper/worker to train his dog . It would still bring in more handlers, which would help the test run, Pros could provide their own honor dogs. 2 guys running ten dogs runs soother than one running 20, 4 running 5 dogs a piece and your not waiting, everything juggled much easier
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 07-12-2013 at 01:35 PM.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member Spag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handler in Training View Post
    This is my first post because I am just learning this game and need to take everything in before I start giving out advice.

    Let me clarify what the OP is saying (since I have had a conversation with him about it.) Neither him or I waited to get signed up till the last minute. I was actually checking twice a day (minimum) to make sure I could get entered. The test filled up in under an hour. Mine and the OP's assumption is that these guys had to have been tipped off somehow to just so happen to be located at their computer the moment the test was finalized.

    I understand why clubs limit entries and I also understand that the pros are making a living at this and rely on the ability to get entered in tests. My problem is that little old me, with just one dog, not knowing a lot of people in the game, doesn't stand a chance at titling my dog when I can't even get entered in the tests. (Not because I wait but because the big names in the game are tipped off to when the test will get finalized). I have a young family and rely on tests within a 4-5 hour drive for affordability and to limit time away from my family. If I can't even get entered in a test (while checking twice a day for it to go final, it is going to take an awful long time for me to get my dog titled if I can only enter one or two tests per year. I now have to make the decision on whether I expand my area that I am willing to travel to a test or just give up on the game altogether.

    I have run 4 master hunt tests in my short time in this game and have pitched in to provide some sort of help at every one of them. Whether I threw birds, set up, tore down or helped re-bird. I can't say the same for the big time pros that were at these tests. What happens when guys like me, that can't get our dogs entered, quit volunteering our weekends????? I'm guessing we wll find out soon enough....
    Very good post! What EVERYONE needs to realize is that these limits have been imposed because of the success of the sport. There are so many participants that the system has become overwhelmed and an attempt is being made to solve the problem. I'm not smart enough to know if this is the right solution but two things are for sure. Time will tell if it's the answer and there will be unintended consequences that will have to be dealt with. I'm not sure where this "blame-the-pros" came from but the pros aren't the problem...the problem is the success and the phenomenal participation. Please keep in mind that a pro represents several of us "little old me's". Without them, I couldn't participate either. I'm not saying yea me and screw you, I hope, when this gets straightened out, we both can participate.

    Hopefully, when these tests fill up early, the RC's will have time and resources to open it up to more participants by adding a flight or two. That could solve a whole bunch of problems!
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  3. #43
    Senior Member bjoiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spag View Post
    Very good post! What EVERYONE needs to realize is that these limits have been imposed because of the success of the sport. There are so many participants that the system has become overwhelmed and an attempt is being made to solve the problem. I'm not smart enough to know if this is the right solution but two things are for sure. Time will tell if it's the answer and there will be unintended consequences that will have to be dealt with. I'm not sure where this "blame-the-pros" came from but the pros aren't the problem...the problem is the success and the phenomenal participation. Please keep in mind that a pro represents several of us "little old me's". Without them, I couldn't participate either. I'm not saying yea me and screw you, I hope, when this gets straightened out, we both can participate.

    Hopefully, when these tests fill up early, the RC's will have time and resources to open it up to more participants by adding a flight or two. That could solve a whole bunch of problems!
    I agree with this 100%. A big solution to the problem with clubs not being able to expand is the lack of help and JUDGES. If you want to add availability of additional flights/tests, step up and help and step up and start judging.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member HNTFSH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mallard Mugger View Post
    Did you take into account the 4-5 hour max. travel time limit from Iowa (I'm assuming)? I don't have time to look it up.... That's part of the problem when you don't have deep pockets and not doing it for a living. How is the avgerage joe suppose to play the game when it fills up in 50 minutes by approximately 16 people or so. That's a little over a 5 dog/person avg. Or in this case 5 pros with 72 dogs (~14 dogs/pro). That is getting a little carried away and I could forsee a limit to the # of dogs entered per person but of course that will not limit the pro's helpers/workers entering.
    It's gonna cost if you want a custom report, by region. I'm just outlining across the entire country what % of Master Limit tests appear to be a problem. I see Kansas area folks might feel hosed.
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  5. #45
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    We've had the same problem up here with a couple tests as well, I can also tell you a 60 dog master is no fun for the judges either, know of a couple that said never again.. I don't feel it's a pro problem it's a system problem, there just trying to make a living and have found a nich, with people willing to pay them to run there dog at a level where they should be running there own dog, one other observation the past couple of weekends is that just because a guy/gal has there kennel name on the side of there truck and has a bunch of entries that doesn't mean there a "PRO" witnessed some terrible handling by people getting paid to do it..

  6. #46
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Hang on... 50 minutes to fill one test and 15 minutes to fill another, filled by pros primarily?

    That means someone is getting the heads up as to EXACTLY when the test will be finalized so that can sit and enter multiple dogs quickly.

    If that's the case there are a whole bunch of people involved and it's not a very fair situation.

    Just what the sport needs long term, more ways to close it off to the regular Joe.
    Darrin Greene

  7. #47
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HNTFSH View Post
    Not in an effort to diminish personal pain or situation but from a policy perspective on limits, the following are test dates and entry status. I did not carve out MN clubs so we can assume the data is a little slanted. However, not all need to run under MN clubs to title a MH dog.

    Tests open for entry through 09/13 show:

    14 Masters with limits not full
    5 Masters with limits full

    The only full tests have 60 dog limits

    The open limited tests have 90 or 180 dog limits

    Seems to me the issue is the smaller MN club that has grounds or accommodation issues to begin with.

    So is the 'policy' the issue?
    The policy is never the issue. It's the PEOPLE that are the issue.

    Entering dogs that you think might be ready and scratching them at the last minute is a real problem created by people who are too selfish to realize they are blocking other people who have dogs that are truly ready, in the name of making a $$ or chasing a $10 master national plate.
    Darrin Greene

  8. #48
    Senior Member HNTFSH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    The policy is never the issue. It's the PEOPLE that are the issue.

    Entering dogs that you think might be ready and scratching them at the last minute is a real problem created by people who are too selfish to realize they are blocking other people who have dogs that are truly ready, in the name of making a $$ or chasing a $10 master national plate.
    No disagreement there!!
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  9. #49
    Junior Member Handler in Training's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spag View Post
    Very good post! What EVERYONE needs to realize is that these limits have been imposed because of the success of the sport. There are so many participants that the system has become overwhelmed and an attempt is being made to solve the problem. I'm not smart enough to know if this is the right solution but two things are for sure. Time will tell if it's the answer and there will be unintended consequences that will have to be dealt with. I'm not sure where this "blame-the-pros" came from but the pros aren't the problem...the problem is the success and the phenomenal participation. Please keep in mind that a pro represents several of us "little old me's". Without them, I couldn't participate either. I'm not saying yea me and screw you, I hope, when this gets straightened out, we both can participate.

    Hopefully, when these tests fill up early, the RC's will have time and resources to open it up to more participants by adding a flight or two. That could solve a whole bunch of problems!
    I couldn't agree more! Success is definitely a demon in this situation. My problem isn't necessarily with the pros that got signed up either. I think they have every right to sign up and I would hate to see a rule that essentially limits the income a pro can bring in by limiting the number of their training dogs they can enter per test. My problem is that, I believe, (but have no proof) that these pros were tipped off to when this test would finalize and made sure they were at their computer at that time to get entered. If this is true, it is very sad and will certainly be another demon to this sport. I hope that I am wrong and we all had the same chance to get signed up. However, I seriously doubt how a person that is entering over 20 dogs in a Master test has the time to be at a computer mid-day instead of out training those 20 dogs unless they had information that the average joe didn't have.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Nikki Malarky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    Hang on... 50 minutes to fill one test and 15 minutes to fill another, filled by pros primarily?

    That means someone is getting the heads up as to EXACTLY when the test will be finalized so that can sit and enter multiple dogs quickly.

    If that's the case there are a whole bunch of people involved and it's not a very fair situation.

    Just what the sport needs long term, more ways to close it off to the regular Joe.
    I know that they have Snowden held up in Russia, but do you think that we can some how get in touch with him & get him to release the information as to who is responsible for this. It is really sad & screwed up. I know according to the OP that the pros are in on it, but the responsible party is the one that let this info out so they could take advantage of it. I still think Snowden is the answer!!!

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