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Thread: Undescending testicle - inheritance?

  1. #21
    Senior Member BAYDOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    Paul, My point was that our breeders vet should have notified them and they should have notified us before shipping the dog to us. Having a vet check up is required by the airlines prior to shipping, so either they have an idiot for a vet or they were dishonest, either way, it was done poorly! Also to all concerned we did have this dog neutered, he has been a good dog, not a great dog....but based on the way this was handled, we over paid for this dog.
    Weather the pup is traveling via a plane, or going into say Canada, a health check for travel is not going to include a Testicle check. Any pup under the age of say 8 months in not a alarm if a testicle is not present. I know of a breeder that had a pup that didn't get his second testicle till it was a tad over 8 months.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    A repro vet that I use did say that the condition is considered inherited, even in the absence of a DNA test. It's not unusual for us not to know the mode of inheritance in traits. Hip dysplasia is a perfect example of that.

    The vet said they had recently been to a seminar in which it was also stated that it is now believed that the same gene is likely responsible for both one or both being undescended. That would mean that if you produce a pup with one undescended, it could just as easily have been two.

    FWIW, I also have had a male pup checked by the vet when shots are given at 6 wks, and both were present. About a week after the pup went home & went to owner's vet, it was missing. It played hide 'n seek for several months before it finally came down permanently ... perhaps about 6 mos old, when all of us had given up hope. That testicle was also very small, and the owner's vet did not expect it to reach normal size ... but about two weeks later it was normal in size.

    Evidently, not all puppies read the books they're supposed to!
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  3. #23
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    I think that people also go into panic mode and I have known some that injecting with testosterone... Well, that could be shooting yourself in the foot if it becomes too big and stays inside the dog because it can't drop. I had one male that they both dropped at 9-10 months old. He had know idea what suddenly appeared and ran like he was being chased.... Another pup that had been injected it finally dropped at almost a year. The previous owner said that the second testicle was still smaller than the other. I told him to check himself .... One is ALWAYS smaller.

    people want to blame stud dogs, but there is a faction that believes it comes via the bitch line, kinda like baldness in men.

    I know of one FC that had one testicle. He was not neutered. Never got cancer. Produced some pups and even though limited, all had 2 testicles.

    Things must not be as clear as some would like to think as the 5 year old research project Ed posted the link in has generated other research projects.
    Last edited by JusticeDog; 07-28-2013 at 07:36 AM.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    I did not mean to start a big issue on this. It happened over 5 years ago, we kept the dog and have enjoyed him, he is a good water dog and upland dog which is what I wanted anyway. He was neutered, which we would have done anyway. Based on my vet's original comments, I do believe that the breeder was aware of the issue and withheld the information from me. I did not put their name in the post, but I would never use this breeder again, nor would I recommend them, but since their is no way I can confirm the facts, I will let that dog lay.....thanks to all for your comments...

  5. #25
    Senior Member Jerry Beil's Avatar
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    Had a similar situation. Only one ball when pup was checked at our Vet. Breeder kept saying it would show up. It never did. Dog is 2.5 now and we had them remove both because most folks with quality females have quite a choice of which stud dogs they want to use, so his value in terms of breeding is nil unless I want to start my own breeding program, and it didn't seem like a good idea to do that with a dog where there is a question about the one ball thing...

    The other side of the equation is that the purchaser of the pup paid full money for the pup who was found to have a basically disqualifying fault in terms of breeding. They pointed it our right away when they first got the pup. They were advised by the breeder to wait and see. I realize there can be ton's of disqualifying faults that you can't find until much later in life, but it does seem somewhat questionable to charge full price for a puppy that has an apparent fault right out of the gate. By the time you wait 8 months, you have tons of affection, time, and money in the pup...

    In my case, we love the dog, and he's fantastic - sure wish he had 2 balls, but he's such a wonderful dog in ALL aspects other than the uniball issue I'd buy him all over again knowing the problem.

    We did have them go in and remove it. I might have left the other because I think there's a value in the dog having the full hormonal complement on board, but we added a female pup to the household, and since the male is 2.5 and there shouldn't be developmental issues with not having his balls at this point, we took them both since we disqualified him as a stud candidate and it would be such a hassle to deal with an intact male and a female in heat in the same house.

    It was a really hard decision for me, because he is such an outstanding and talented dog both at home and in the field, and loves to train etc. Based on that he'd be a great stud. However, in order to decide to stud him, I'd have had to have all of the other genetic tests - hips, elbows, eyes, EIC, CNM etc etc etc done. That costs money, and considering starting with a dog with what most experienced breeders would consider a disqualifying fault, it just didn't seem like a good investment.

    I'd say for future reference, I'd check or ask before getting a male if there were two balls, and ask for a guarantee of some sort that there will be 2 balls etc. Not sure that's a standard guarantee, and realizing that they do sometimes drop quite a bit later it would have to be some kind of money back, or something if it didn't drop.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Jerry, I agree with your perspective......you said it better than I could have...

  7. #27
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    If the testicles were both there at the time the breeder had the pup vet-checked, and if the pup was not sold to be breeding stock, then the fair thing for the breeder to do (it would seem) is refund the amount of the cost of the surgery for the removal.

    The breeder might be guilty of nothing more than unanticipated bad luck?
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  8. #28

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    My male didn't drop them until 6 months. I was defiantly getting nervous.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Brettttka's Avatar
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    I have a 1.5 year old YLM and he only has one that has dropped. Did not bother me when purchasing him I knew I was not going to breed him or will probably never put more that a JH title on him. My question is will it affect his retrieving desire/drive if I nueter him? He is a great pet and duck dog but dont want it to affect any of it.

  10. #30
    Senior Member firehouselabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    I did not mean to start a big issue on this. It happened over 5 years ago, we kept the dog and have enjoyed him, he is a good water dog and upland dog which is what I wanted anyway. He was neutered, which we would have done anyway. Based on my vet's original comments, I do believe that the breeder was aware of the issue and withheld the information from me. I did not put their name in the post, but I would never use this breeder again, nor would I recommend them, but since their is no way I can confirm the facts, I will let that dog lay.....thanks to all for your comments...
    I highlighted this because:

    1) You were planning on neutering him anyway. You were not looking for a stud dog. Thus- one ball or a dozen balls, it really didn't matter that the teste was descended or not. Thus you paid for the dog that you were expecting- a dog with no future of being bred.

    2) Your vet was not present nor spoke with breeder's vet, nor did him/she speak with breeder. Therefore, a vet's "comments" are just that- comments. Kind of like noticing that the sky is blue. I have heard many vet "comments" that really made me stop and pause and wonder how this person ever gets dressed in the morning, let alone become a vet. A vet's comments may also very well be "colored" by their own opinions and feelings in regard to breeders in general. My vet works for me, by the way- and will always say things in a positive light toward me- but not necessarily toward other vets, breeders, etc... so they want to make the customer happy, even if that means putting the blame for trivial or incidental congenital things on the breeder. Like an undescended testicle at 7-8wks of age.
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