The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 23

Thread: Retrieving to the back pile with confidence

  1. #11
    Senior Member Peter G Lippert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    233

    Default

    Here is a video I took earlier this afternoon. We made a mistake on one retrieve but the rest went as planned. Let me know what you guys think I am doing wrong. Be kind, rookie trainer here.

    http://youtu.be/WGjdUhqoxuE
    Rocky's Last Chambered Shell-"Ruger"

    Blackjack's Mighty Ace Under the Gun
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=84111

  2. #12
    Senior Member Peter G Lippert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    233

    Default

    Also thanks a lot guys for all the advice and the thread link Ken!
    Rocky's Last Chambered Shell-"Ruger"

    Blackjack's Mighty Ace Under the Gun
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=84111

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Longview Texas
    Posts
    583

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Plippert View Post
    Here is a video I took earlier this afternoon. We made a mistake on one retrieve but the rest went as planned. Let me know what you guys think I am doing wrong. Be kind, rookie trainer here.

    http://youtu.be/WGjdUhqoxuE
    Just a couple of observations and questions. I know that you have said that you have been on this drill for three months but how often during that time have you done this drill. It would appear to me that the dog has some trouble still with certain casts at a distance. Overall I don't feel that your dog is doing bad and I don't think that the back pile is the problem. It appears to me that distance is the problem. How long have you been running from the distance that you show in the video. It doesn't matter if you have been running the drill for a year, if you are now running it further than usual or in a new area, the dog is going to have problems.

    The other thing that I saw was that you are trying to cast your way out of problems. First of all you are casting way too fast for the level of the dog. Give your casts much slower and you will see better results. Secondly, stop your dog on the whistle and tweet him in when he takes the wrong cast. Stop him again and give the SAME cast. The point is to get the cast you are looking for not to get the dog to the blind. Attrition is going to be really hard for you as well if you continue to give huge casts the first time. You have nothing left to give to help the dog on subsequent casts. Start out with a slow silent cast with no lateral movement. Next go to a slow cast with lateral step. Next step with voice and so on down the line. You are almost there but just need to tweak a few things. Good luck.

  4. #14
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    West Central AL
    Posts
    1,208

    Default

    Tony is absolutely right. Slow down, both in the amount of time you wait to give the cast and in giving the cast itself. Most people cast (the actual arm motion) too fast. If I shoot my arm out there like that my dog will be in the next county.

    Tony is also right in saying it is more important, by several orders of magnitude, to get the cast at this stage rather than getting the blind or pile. Since you are (or should be) stopping the dog and calling him back to the spot when you don't get a cast, let him carry it a while (even crossing back and forth over the line to the blind/pile) when you do get it so it is clear that he has done it correctly.

    At this point, cast>>>>>>getting the blind. Now ask me how I learned all this. LOL
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  5. #15
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Souf Joisy
    Posts
    2,758

    Default

    I didn't watch the whole thing but one notable behavior was the dog looking up at you instead of out to the pile between sends. You don't want him disengaging from his work to look at you between sends, just like you don't want him doing it between marks.

    Again, make that back pile (and the others) clearly visible. The grass in that field is too high.

    Others may have suggestions on him looking at you but were it me I would heel forward a step and re-engage him as opposed to waiting for him to look out.

    You set the pace here, not him. This is about dealing with training pressure as much as it is anything else.

    The clearly visible pile may correct this but it may not. You may need work on that behavior a bit.
    Darrin Greene

  6. #16
    Senior Member yellow machine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Elk River, MN
    Posts
    701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    Hang on, you said he goes but not with confidence until he SEES the back pile? The back pile should be clearly visible at all times in TT work.

    I have done it (usually do) in places where you can't control the mowing schedule, so you have to use a bucket or a blind pole to give him something to key in on visually.

    The first time your dog should be running away from you to get a bumper that isn't visible is in pattern blinds, if I recall correctly.

    Put a white bucket out and throw the first bumper into the pile. See if that doesn't cleat up your problem.
    Darrin do you use white buckets for PB?
    A cold nose feels good on a hot day.....
    Majestic Oaks Liberty Belle JH

  7. #17
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Souf Joisy
    Posts
    2,758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yellow machine View Post
    Darrin do you use white buckets for PB?
    NO a pattern blind is the transition in my world from seeing the target in T work and other drills to running "into space".

    Some people do use longer "sight blinds" though, as an intermediate step between the T and pattern blinds.
    Darrin Greene

  8. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    698

    Default

    Being devils advocate here, but do you want to teach your pup in the yard to "run to something" or "leave your side when sent?" A sight blind isn't a blind the dog can see as much as it is a blind the dog saw planted. I personally don't want to teach a dog to run "to" something on a blind, although it can be somewhat helpful to cut corners ect after they have been through the yard....
    "Women are like labradors...,they all have their quarks."~Phil Robertson

  9. #19
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Souf Joisy
    Posts
    2,758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff evans View Post
    Being devils advocate here, but do you want to teach your pup in the yard to "run to something" or "leave your side when sent?" A sight blind isn't a blind the dog can see as much as it is a blind the dog saw planted. I personally don't want to teach a dog to run "to" something on a blind, although it can be somewhat helpful to cut corners ect after they have been through the yard....
    We can use whatever terms we want. A blind the dogs sees planted is typically called a bird boy blind but that is irrelevant. Semantics aside, the use of visible piles and other visual aids in transition from FF to cold blinds is a matter of personal choice.

    I personally want to use whatever tools I have available to me to minimize confusion on the dog's part while I'm teaching him to deal with pressure.

    If I'm going to be standing back there going "back burn back" I want the dog to know where he's going (initially) to eliminate the potential attitude problems associated with confusion about the task at hand.

    I just think that keeping things stupid simple obvious (read visible) to the dog makes both his life and mine a lot easier. It is also an issue of fairness to a young dog who has no idea what he's doing at that stage.

    I don't believe that the "back" command is full re-enforced to the point where running into space is a fair demand until after pattern blinds.

    If it were, we wouldn't need pattern blinds in the program.

    Plenty of people take the visible pile away sooner and that's up to them. It's their dog and they own the results. It's just not my personal preference. Both methods work.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 10-08-2013 at 04:07 PM.
    Darrin Greene

  10. #20
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    7,688

    Default

    A blind the dogs sees planted is typically called a bird boy blind
    I wonder if this is regional?

    One trouble with this retriever game is that there is no commonly accepted terminology. To me a bird boy blind is one where a visible bird boy plants a blind that the dog does not see planted. The bird boy moves off a little but in plain site of the dog and the dog runs the blind. The bird boy plants another blind while the dog is running back to the handler with the blind he picked up. AFter planting the blind the bird boy moves off to a new spot, usually in the same relationship as he was when the dog ran the first blind. The BB is visible to the dog on all blinds but the dog doesn't see the blind being planted.

    Just as a data point, I do not usually have visible piles out for the dog during pile work. I do, however, ID the piles the first few times I run that particular pile. After a few days of running the same pile, I do not ID it anymore. The dog knows where it is.
    Last edited by Howard N; 10-08-2013 at 05:46 PM.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •