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Thread: Blind Retrieve No Go Problem

  1. #1
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    Default Blind Retrieve No Go Problem

    I have a young 4 year old female lab that has developed a serious no go problem on blinds. She needs one more pass for her Master Hunter title. Until 5 weeks ago she never had this problem. Then on the last series of a MH Test she refused to go on "Back" for a relatively simple double blind, max distance 120 yards. She has been trained on difficult blinds ranging from passing poison birds up to 400 yards, handles very well and has been the best of three dogs I have trained. The following day she gave a no go on land blinds in the first series. The following day she gave a no go in the second series of the Q field trial. Three weeks later she gave another no go in the second series water blinds in a MH test. I later ran the same blinds using a collar to make sure she went. She got the first 125 yard water land blind with one handle and lined the second 90 yard blind.

    She has been force fetched, forced to pile, etc. Although I train with an E collar, I almost never use it because she does so well and wants to please. I do notice she may appear to be confused on the above no gos but can not understand why since she routinely runs much more difficult blinds.

    I would appreciate any suggestions on how to resolve this problem.

  2. #2
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    My assessment would be that you are running way too many tests. The first thing that I would do is stop testing immediately and do not resume until she's had a long list of successes in training. It sounds like you already know how to correct for these problems because you have already done it. Now you need to go out and train and get some of those corrections until it is re-conditioned. Good luck.

  3. #3
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    Absolutely, QUIT running all these tests and giving her repeated opportunities to no-go at a test. Stop.

    With a dog of the background and past successes you describe, I think you know what to do. No question if this were my dog, I would be ready every time I set up for a blind and he would get 5 steps forward with a burn and a resend. And I would have to see MANY more blinds without a no-go before I would trust him at another test.

    For sure, someone is going to come on here and tell you the dog is confused and/or lacks confidence. With this dogs history as you describe it, he knows what back means. You are well past the teaching phase. There is no confusion unless you let him learn that he can question your send. You say 'back", he goes. Then you help him the rest of the way. Give him the benefit of the doubt and lighten up on any casting corrections until his attitude gets better about going.

    As far as confidence, at this point he should be pretty confident that if he doesn't go, he will pay the consequences.

    JS
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    Senior Member Tim West's Avatar
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    I had an AFC that would occasionally do crazy stuff on blinds. Usually it resulted from the dog being confused on a blind drill that I did where I was trying to be too fine on lines and the picture I wanted was not crystal clear. Or, to me it was clear, but not to her!

    Once in a trial she sat looking at me and I cast her time after time. She just sat there. Finally I gave her a walking over on a cast that should have been an angle back and she took it all the way to the bird. She knew what the cast was, she just didn't want to do it.

    Sometimes with females you can't read too much into it. She may be coming into heat, she may have had her feelings hurt or whatever.

    I got Gracie out of it by running nothing but known pattern blinds, with the collar on, but without ever using a correction. Usually she would line all of em. The last one was always a water blind with a long entry into an open pond. If she wasn't perfect, it didn't matter, I just wanted her to have a long entry into water with no corrections on it whatsover. Mind you, this was a dog that was the best blind running dog I have ever owned, hands down.

    Don't worry too much about it and don't over train to correct it (in my opinion). Lay off a trial or two and take it easy with her. She will be back.
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  5. #5

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    I agree with both posters if you continue to run test and she continues to not handle you are going to be setting a precedence for her to blow you off with out any consequences. Make sure she is healthy that there is not some medical reason for this behavior. I will say when my bitch goes into heat she is sensitive (not you honey I was talking about the dog).

    Work on building her confidence backup as Tim has described above. I don't use an e-collar so I can't force the dog to do the work some times I like to put a launcher out there and send the dog to the launcher as a blind. Stop the dog half way there and then give them a back cast and then when the dog has taken the cast I will launch the bumper as a reward for talking the cast. I don't' like to do a lot of those but some times it can turn the confidence around fast.

    Keep in mind I work with Spaniels and they can be a little more sensitive to pressure.

    Remember its not about the finish line its about the journey and the time spent with your dog.
    Last edited by Im_with_Brandy; 07-26-2013 at 08:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktexchuck View Post
    I have a young 4 year old female lab that has developed a serious no go problem on blinds. She needs one more pass for her Master Hunter title. Until 5 weeks ago she never had this problem. Then on the last series of a MH Test she refused to go on "Back" for a relatively simple double blind, max distance 120 yards. She has been trained on difficult blinds ranging from passing poison birds up to 400 yards, handles very well and has been the best of three dogs I have trained. The following day she gave a no go on land blinds in the first series. The following day she gave a no go in the second series of the Q field trial. Three weeks later she gave another no go in the second series water blinds in a MH test. I later ran the same blinds using a collar to make sure she went. She got the first 125 yard water land blind with one handle and lined the second 90 yard blind.

    She has been force fetched, forced to pile, etc. Although I train with an E collar, I almost never use it because she does so well and wants to please. I do notice she may appear to be confused on the above no gos but can not understand why since she routinely runs much more difficult blinds.

    I would appreciate any suggestions on how to resolve this problem.

    Have you ever intentionally created no-gos in your training ? Steve S
    Last edited by steve schreiner; 07-26-2013 at 10:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    Have you ever intentionally created no-gos in your training ? Steve S
    Ok I'll bite. WTH are you talking about???

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    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Marshall View Post
    Ok I'll bite. WTH are you talking about???
    Force to a pile can create them. One of the reasons we do them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Force to a pile can create them. One of the reasons we do them.
    Ahhh! Gotcha. I didn't think about it that way. I have just always looked at it as prevention and a creating a method of correction for a multitude of different things (de-pop, de-flare) for example. Never thought of it as an intentional creation of no-goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    For sure, someone is going to come on here and tell you the dog is confused and/or lacks confidence.
    That's possible J.S., but it ain't going to be me


    With this dogs history as you describe it, he knows what back means. You are well past the teaching phase. There is no confusion unless you let him learn that he can question your send. You say 'back", he goes. Then you help him the rest of the way. JS
    Am in your camp-
    You command BACK! and the dog dang well better go SOMEWHERE even if it's the wrong line!

    This dog didn't get to where it's at by not going.
    Last edited by Swampbilly; 07-27-2013 at 07:39 AM.
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