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Thread: Blind Retrieve No Go Problem

  1. #31
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    Howard,
    I know you have plenty of "pelts on your wall". If you haven't guessed, I'm Chuck M, the dog in question is Cinder out of Willow and Roy's Jag. Is your advice to create no go's by running force to pile until she no goes and then burn?

    One additional piece of info. After Cinder no go'd in two consecutive MH tests in Fairbanks, I took her to the legal training area there. I though maybe it was the heat that caused the no go's. I ran about 15 consecutive blinds ranging from 100+ to 250 + yards hoping to get a no go and then burn. I never got one. In fact, I almost ran too many and gave her a heat stroke. Lucky I had an outdoor shower on the RV with cold water. Too bad Roy's not around in case he has some pertinent advice based on Jag. I never had this problem with Willow (mother) or Onyx (grandmother).
    Sandy thinks Cinder can sense loss of confidence in me and there's nothing I can do about that since I don't know when or where this will happen again. It did happen again at Turnagain. As I stated, I reran the exact blinds later, and she got the long one with one handle and line the short one. She never has this problem in training. I believe she ran the exact test two years ago when she was 2 and had no problems.

    I've signed up for the two HT's at Point M but am afraid the same will probably happen again.

    Any suggestions.
    Chuck

  2. #32
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    Please, Wayne has the answer, put the dog up for a couple of weeks then find a new trainer. Proven effective. Why waste all this time, simple fix

    / Paul
    You think you've banged this drum enough yet?

    You made your point a while ago. Now you're nagging.
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  3. #33
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktexchuck View Post
    Howard,
    I know you have plenty of "pelts on your wall". If you haven't guessed, I'm Chuck M, the dog in question is Cinder out of Willow and Roy's Jag. Is your advice to create no go's by running force to pile until she no goes and then burn?

    One additional piece of info. After Cinder no go'd in two consecutive MH tests in Fairbanks, I took her to the legal training area there. I though maybe it was the heat that caused the no go's. I ran about 15 consecutive blinds ranging from 100+ to 250 + yards hoping to get a no go and then burn. I never got one. In fact, I almost ran too many and gave her a heat stroke. Lucky I had an outdoor shower on the RV with cold water. Too bad Roy's not around in case he has some pertinent advice based on Jag. I never had this problem with Willow (mother) or Onyx (grandmother).
    Sandy thinks Cinder can sense loss of confidence in me and there's nothing I can do about that since I don't know when or where this will happen again. It did happen again at Turnagain. As I stated, I reran the exact blinds later, and she got the long one with one handle and line the short one. She never has this problem in training. I believe she ran the exact test two years ago when she was 2 and had no problems.

    I've signed up for the two HT's at Point M but am afraid the same will probably happen again.

    Any suggestions.
    Chuck
    what would you like to know about Jag ? have seen two litters of his pass thru our house from the breeding with Nola..can also tell you about Jag's mom Kirby (Kleen Sweep)...

    Jag throws a high rolling dog, if you got a chance to see Jag's Piper before Roy passed you will know what I mean...our dog Brig is a high roller even at age 7...even his sister FC AFC Knollwoods Sweet Lily is one heck of a studette...Jag throws a dog that can mark, look at Paula Feguson's dog Lucky (Hiwood Jag's Wild Card)...BUT his pups can be a touch on the sensitive side...if you want to know more about Jag give me or my brother a call and we will tell you all we know about him
    All my Exes live in Texas

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    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  4. #34
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    You think you've banged this drum enough yet?

    You made your point a while ago. Now you're nagging.
    Your right. I'm sure enough advice will be provided.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktexchuck View Post
    Howard,
    I know you have plenty of "pelts on your wall". If you haven't guessed, I'm Chuck M, the dog in question is Cinder out of Willow and Roy's Jag. Is your advice to create no go's by running force to pile until she no goes and then burn?

    One additional piece of info. After Cinder no go'd in two consecutive MH tests in Fairbanks, I took her to the legal training area there. I though maybe it was the heat that caused the no go's. I ran about 15 consecutive blinds ranging from 100+ to 250 + yards hoping to get a no go and then burn. I never got one. In fact, I almost ran too many and gave her a heat stroke. Lucky I had an outdoor shower on the RV with cold water. Too bad Roy's not around in case he has some pertinent advice based on Jag. I never had this problem with Willow (mother) or Onyx (grandmother).
    Sandy thinks Cinder can sense loss of confidence in me and there's nothing I can do about that since I don't know when or where this will happen again. It did happen again at Turnagain. As I stated, I reran the exact blinds later, and she got the long one with one handle and line the short one. She never has this problem in training. I believe she ran the exact test two years ago when she was 2 and had no problems.

    I've signed up for the two HT's at Point M but am afraid the same will probably happen again.

    Any suggestions.
    Chuck
    Oh, You're North Carolina Chuck.

    Yeah, if it had been my dog I would have taken her off the grounds and forced to a 20 yard pile 2, 3, or 4 times in a row after the first episode. Force at the level the dog needs not the max 'cause you're mad. That might have been all you needed. or you might have to go through a month long session of basics all over again. I don't know the dog or the problem.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  6. #36
    Senior Member Pals's Avatar
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    Well it appears the post I responded to had been deleted. That will teach me to use quotes. - I will take my own advice and Stop whining.

    My apologies to the OP. I hope that you figure out what is going on with your dog.
    Last edited by Pals; 08-01-2013 at 09:28 AM.

  7. #37
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    Howard,
    Not sure if your received my earlier reply on the Blind Retrieve No Go Problem. The dog in question is Cinder out of Willow and Roy's Jag. Additional info is I did try to create a no go situation in Fairbanks after Cinder gave no go's in two consecutive MH test. I though the temperature may have contributed to the problem so after the second no go, I trained on the grounds past the highway bridge. Did about 15 blinds _ 100 to 275 yards. Never got a no go and almost had a heat stroke problem but was able to cooler down in RV shower. That evening and the nest morning I repeated similar blinds and never got a no go. That morning in the Q, she was one of 4 out of about 15 that didn't require handling on the marks. Then another no go on the blind. Three weeks later another no go at Turnagain. I repeated later with the collar and she lined the short blind and required one handle on the long one. I believe she ran the same two blinds two years ago when she was 2.
    I'd really appreciate any helpful advice you could provide. She's entered at PM but am concerned may have the same problem. As stated before, the problem NEVER happens during training.
    Chuck M

  8. #38
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    I really don't know Chuck. I said what I would have done and what I'd do in post number 35.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  9. #39
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    1. I did in the first two HT's mentioned originally. The second two HT's I walked her to the line and sent her as soon as she seemed to be looking the right way. That worked for two sets of blinds in one test (She went out on a water blind when I handled when I should not have). The following day, she no go'd the first series on exact blinds she had done in the past when I tried to send her immediately. When I repeated after the test later with no one around, she lined one of the blinds and took one handle to get the long one about 175 yds.

    2. She never has done this (no go) in training with or w/o the collar.

    3. Not very often. However in training she routinely runs cold blinds of various difficulty with enthusiasm.

  10. #40
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    Thanks Howard. My luck just gets worse. I went out of state for 2 weeks and when I returned, Cinder, went into heat so I won't get to see what happens at PM. Now I'll have to go through another 2 to 3 day HT in the lower 48.
    Chuck

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