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Thread: New marking problem

  1. #1
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    Default New marking problem

    Hey guys I have noticed a odd quirk with my dog over the past couple days with my dog and that he is starting to pop on his marks. Yesterday my training buddy and I got together and set up a season like test. We did a walk up and the dokken landed maybe 15 feet away from us. I sent max for the mark and he got 5 feet out in front of me, stopped, and just stood there looking at me. I told him to hunt it up and he proceeded right to the mark and brought it back.

    Today I went out and did a bunch of walking singles with him and he did the same thing. He would go out into the field hunt for a little bit, than sit down and face me, I would tell him to hunt it up, and he would resume his hunt.

    I dunno where this has came from. I have not been handling him on his marks. I have been focusing more on water marks than land so maybe I have thrown him a little bit out of balance. I've been doing both singles and doubles. I try to make the singles a little bit of a challenge for him.

    Any ideas?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Sometimes the hardest thing for a trainer to do is to unfix his or her gaze on the current set of goals, and do what's better for the dog for a while. It sounds to me like you would do well to stop running the kind of marks you've been running for about a week or two, and run high success, shorter marks in less, if any cover. If you run water, make the water a small portion of the route instead of all out water marks. I'll bet withing the next two weeks this will disappear.

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    each time the dog popped you gave him what he was looking for...by telling him to "hunt it up" you reinforced the idea that it was ok for him to turn and look for help...
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    Senior Member Mountain Duck's Avatar
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    You mentioned walkups......have you been doing a lot of walkup/sit to flush type work? Been throwing a lot of close breaking birds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Sometimes the hardest thing for a trainer to do is to unfix his or her gaze on the current set of goals, and do what's better for the dog for a while. It sounds to me like you would do well to stop running the kind of marks you've been running for about a week or two, and run high success, shorter marks in less, if any cover. If you run water, make the water a small portion of the route instead of all out water marks. I'll bet withing the next two weeks this will disappear.

    Evan
    Evan,

    As a trainer I am always training to maintain a balance with my dog. Is it possible that some dogs are hard to maintain a balance with? I know that is kind of a odd statement, but I would describe Max as a very "Moody" dog. Some days he looks amazing than the next day it is like I am working with a completely different dog. He is very inconstant and it makes reading him a VERY hard challenge for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    each time the dog popped you gave him what he was looking for...by telling him to "hunt it up" you reinforced the idea that it was ok for him to turn and look for help...
    What would you have done? Waited the dog out? What if the dog decided to come back to the handler instead of staying out in the field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Duck View Post
    You mentioned walkups......have you been doing a lot of walkup/sit to flush type work? Been throwing a lot of close breaking birds?
    I have not been doing a lot of breaking birds or even walk ups. Just something I wanted to see how he would do before putting him in a testing situation.

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logy View Post

    What would you have done? Waited the dog out? What if the dog decided to come back to the handler instead of staying out in the field?
    Since this question is directed to me I will answer it this way...the dog was basically blowing off your first command...when you gave him his initial "back"...I would have sweated the dog for a minute or so and see what he was going to do...the dog obviously knew where the bird was since it completed the retrieve with no problem..You could have also sent the dog from the point of the refusal...

    without knowing the history of how you got to this point its a little difficult to just apply a band aid approach, and hoping that there isnt a bigger problem that may have caused the initial pop in the first place
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

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    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    What would you have done? Waited the dog out? What if the dog decided to come back to the handler instead of staying out in the field?
    I'm not the one asked but I'd like to answer anyway.

    One of my dogs would have had decent basics and I have my responses for pops. This is one of the big reasons I do basics.

    In this case I would have given a burn and a, "Back." The burn wouldn't have been an earth shaking come to Jesus burn, but more like a quick nick, enough to get him moving. Also, I want to get him moving as quickly as I can so it would come at the instant I read the pop. If the pop occurred in the area of the fall, I'd still give the burn, but instead of a, "Back," it would have been a come in whistle. Most dogs won't come in but it will get them up and hunting again. If they do start to come in then I handle back to the area.
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    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logy View Post
    Hey guys I have noticed a odd quirk with my dog over the past couple days with my dog and that he is starting to pop on his marks. Yesterday my training buddy and I got together and set up a season like test. We did a walk up and the dokken landed maybe 15 feet away from us. I sent max for the mark and he got 5 feet out in front of me, stopped, and just stood there looking at me. I told him to hunt it up and he proceeded right to the mark and brought it back.

    Today I went out and did a bunch of walking singles with him and he did the same thing. He would go out into the field hunt for a little bit, than sit down and face me, I would tell him to hunt it up, and he would resume his hunt.

    I dunno where this has came from. I have not been handling him on his marks. I have been focusing more on water marks than land so maybe I have thrown him a little bit out of balance. I've been doing both singles and doubles. I try to make the singles a little bit of a challenge for him.

    Any ideas?
    Is this a typo? Can't throw a mark much shorter than 15 feet.

    JS
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    Senior Member Sue Kiefer's Avatar
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    If its a mark then I would find a totally different field that he hasn't seen before and have your thrower throw big white bumpers so he has success.
    I won't burn him on a mark.
    Then again we all don't know why your dog is popping either.
    1.) is it confusion.
    2.) is it because he feels nervous
    a.)are you calling him back allot or handling on allot of marks lately?
    b.) are you sweating him on the line trying to get the perfect line?
    Never confuse activity with success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by logy View Post
    Hey guys I have noticed a odd quirk with my dog over the past couple days with my dog and that he is starting to pop on his marks. Yesterday my training buddy and I got together and set up a season like test. We did a walk up and the dokken landed maybe 15 feet away from us. I sent max for the mark and he got 5 feet out in front of me, stopped, and just stood there looking at me. I told him to hunt it up and he proceeded right to the mark and brought it back.

    Today I went out and did a bunch of walking singles with him and he did the same thing. He would go out into the field hunt for a little bit, than sit down and face me, I would tell him to hunt it up, and he would resume his hunt.

    I dunno where this has came from. I have not been handling him on his marks. I have been focusing more on water marks than land so maybe I have thrown him a little bit out of balance. I've been doing both singles and doubles. I try to make the singles a little bit of a challenge for him.

    Any ideas?
    I read this earlier in the day and have re-read it and given it some thought and I think that I see the writing on the wall. I know what you get when you assume but I am going to do it anyway because I think that it is the root of your problem. You stated that you have been working on the walk up and I would bet that you have been having to correct the dog for breaking at least some portion of the time. I would assume that the correction that you have been giving is "nick SIT!!!" If this is the case I believe that confusion is the issue and the dog is sitting because he thought that he has done something wrong. This tendency, because you nurtured it, transferred into your marking. I would fix the issue by going out with a friend and marking the dog but when you do have the BB throw bumpers in rapid fire succession so that the dog flies to the area with confidence and has no choice but to be successful. Do this for 2 or 3 sessions and then go back to regular singles and see if it doesn't fix the problem. I agree with some of the other fixes that have been given but in this case believe that confusion is the problem and pressure may shut the dog down even further. And BTW, when you finally go back to walk ups, make them less tempting (further out) and teach the concept so that you don't create anymore issues. Good luck.

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