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Thread: When to start swim bye

  1. #1
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    Default When to start swim bye

    I have a 7 month old who has been ff cc simple t drills FTP at a 150 yards. My question is I started to try swim bye today and it didn't go to we'll. after she retrived the bumper came half way in I gave her a left over she kept coming in I nicked her she came in faster and faster tried it again same thing. Should I do a mock swim bye in land first. I'm am lost. Don't know if I should put more pressure on her in the water or what to do. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated

  2. #2
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    Sounds like u didn't lay the proper foundation. Did u do disciplined casting? Go to RetrieversOnline website and he has a free downloadable article on how to do swimby. To say the least u skipped a bunch of steps.
    I think the article will help u a lot.
    No more ecollar pressure in the water until u read and properly force the dog on water as per the article.
    Wayne Nutt
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  3. #3
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    I don't mean to jump on you but if you didn't ruin your dogs water attitude with that stunt then count your blessings. First I will tell you that if your dog is doing all of that at 7 months then you need to either start collecting and freezing semen right now or you went way too fast and didn't condition any of the responses near well enough. The second thing is you should not be even attempting swim by until the dog is at least doing very well on the double t and possibly even handling on the return. You can't get a dog to do something on water that he won't do on land. That's day one stuff.

    Sorry, hadn't had coffee. Slow down. Get some resources. (Method, mentor, club) Sounds like you have the potential to have an all star but you have to slow down. You are doing things with your dog that most pro's would not be doing until the dog was pushing a year old.

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    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt View Post
    Sounds like u didn't lay the proper foundation. Did u do disciplined casting? Go to RetrieversOnline website and he has a free downloadable article on how to do swimby. To say the least u skipped a bunch of steps.
    I think the article will help u a lot.
    No more ecollar pressure in the water until u read and properly force the dog on water as per the article.
    Agree with Wayne and the other comment. When you try something new first off don't use your Ecollar to teach. That is not what it is for. Go back to your basics. Good luck.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny View Post
    I have a 7 month old who has been ff cc simple t drills FTP at a 150 yards. My question is I started to try swim bye today and it didn't go to we'll. after she retrived the bumper came half way in I gave her a left over she kept coming in I nicked her she came in faster and faster tried it again same thing. Should I do a mock swim bye in land first. I'm am lost. Don't know if I should put more pressure on her in the water or what to do. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated
    Watch the 5/23/12 clip from Bill Hillmann's blog http://www.billhillmann.net/blog/page/2/ Excellent beginning

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny View Post
    I have a 7 month old who has been ff cc simple t drills FTP at a 150 yards. My question is I started to try swim bye today and it didn't go to we'll. after she retrived the bumper came half way in I gave her a left over she kept coming in I nicked her she came in faster and faster tried it again same thing. Should I do a mock swim bye in land first. I'm am lost. Don't know if I should put more pressure on her in the water or what to do. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated
    Something fundamental to keep in mind, and I mention this because of how far you are into training with a pup only 7 months old, is that you may have fallen for the same thing many newer trainers do. You have a nice pup that picks things up fast, and has convinced you she's got it! Just going through the motions of a new skill is not the same thing as being trained. Formal Basics usually takes around 6 months. That gives the pup enough time and exposure to each skill for them to become ingrained as a habit. It's not enough that she seems to get the idea.

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  7. #7
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    Thanks guys for the info and scolding! Yes I needed it! That was my question is if I was pushing her to fast to far. But that's the thing I'm not pushing her she wants to learn if you don't factor something new in she will get bored and slow down.

    No I didn't push her hard in the water yesterday so we are good there

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    Senior Member Scott Adams's Avatar
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    One thing I haven't seen mentioned is this.
    After the dog is successfully through land basics and you are ready for swimby, how is the dogs attitude?
    Most have just come through a great deal of mental pressure. Why not back off and work on fun stuff like marking?
    Give him some good stuff on water before you start the forcing, if you haven't been already.
    Lots of dogs don't finish basics before 1 year old,
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  9. #9
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Did you follow Wayne's advice and read the swimby article on Retrievers Online? There are several pages so don't just read to the bottom of the first page and think that is the end of the article.

    http://www.retrieversonline.com/swimby.htm

    Study through it and you will see how many, many steps Dennis takes to break
    down the swimby process. (and you tried to do them all at once in one step on your first attempt ... )

    Notice how he has broken down each advancing step into BABY STEPS ... as simple as you can imagine. Apply this philosophy to every new concept you set out to teach your dog. Life long.

    YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE REAL SMART TO TRAIN A DOG. IN FACT, IT HELPS IF YOU CAN "DUMB YOURSELF DOWN" ENOUGH TO THINK IN TERMS OF THE DOG'S PERCEPTION.

    Notice also, how each day, when Dennis comes back for another lesson, he is careful to set the stage by "reminding" the dog what the drill is; each time out he starts by identifying the pile again, giving a freebie or two (straight out to the pile and back) before trying to advance to a new step.

    Good luck.

    JS
    Last edited by JS; 07-27-2013 at 10:28 AM.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Default Great Training Post Here!

    Wow...this is one of the best training posts I have seen, not only do we have an example of what can go wrong, but information on the damage that can be done, and where you can go to get a better idea of the proper steps and sequences....not to mention the comments regarding the normal time it takes to progress through these training levels.....All good stuff for those of us with young dogs in training....

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